Why is my wingman always running low on fuel?

I'm flying su-25t, and I use the editor to edit the campaign in the game,

I gave 80 percent fuel to our wingman, and within 10 minutes of the battle, my wingman always ejected because he ran out of fuel.

That is to say, after deducting the time of flying to the battlefield, he will run out of fuel within 5 minutes of starting a war against the enemy.

I don't know why. How did that happen?

Before DCS was updated, my wingman could finish the battle with 70% fuel.

Now my wingman runs out of fuel in less than ten minutes. I wonder if other players will have this problem? :(

I've noticed this a couple of times as well in the past. Haven't kept track of it well enough to be useful in a potential bug squash but you might be on to something.

That being said...SOME of those times I was left scratching my head about why they ran out of fuel was due to their tanks being shot. Check the tracks, if they got a big hole in 'em, that might be the problem lol. If not, then yeah, I would say something is wrong.

Probably most of their fuel was burned to chasing you in formation.

Probably most of their fuel was burned to chasing you in formation.

I would assume this is it.

Flying the Mirage the wingman burns fuel like mad. They use afterburners 90% of the time, they have trouble with efficiency even when escorting a slower jet. With other aircraft, like a10, I normally put 30% less fuel on my aircraft, but on the mirage my solution is to fit external tanks and prevent them from jettisoning via editor. I wish AI was better, but its one more sad aspect of it.

I'm flying su-25t, and I use the editor to edit the campaign in the game,

I gave 80 percent fuel to our wingman, and within 10 minutes of the battle, my wingman always ejected because he ran out of fuel.

That is to say, after deducting the time of flying to the battlefield, he will run out of fuel within 5 minutes of starting a war against the enemy.

I don't know why. How did that happen?

Before DCS was updated, my wingman could finish the battle with 70% fuel.

Now my wingman runs out of fuel in less than ten minutes. I wonder if other players will have this problem? :(

I've noticed this exact thing a *lot*.

I always give my wingdudes a lot more fuel than myself. They still always run out of gas when I have plenty left, and it's especially a problem when flying any of the jets that have afterburners.

I've noticed that when I'm flying straight and level in the Flanker, Fulcrum or Eagle at maybe 85-90% RPM on the gauge, my wingmen always need full afterburner to try to catch up and join the formation. When they're doing that, they can barely climb and accelerate at full AB, and invariable use up all their fuel.

I know that AI aircraft use different flight models from the human-piloted aircraft, but the fuel consumption is much, much too high.

AD

Flying the Mirage the wingman burns fuel like mad. They use afterburners 90% of the time, they have trouble with efficiency even when escorting a slower jet. With other aircraft, like a10, I normally put 30% less fuel on my aircraft, but on the mirage my solution is to fit external tanks and prevent them from jettisoning via editor. I wish AI was better, but its one more sad aspect of it.

Before I gave orders, my wingman would fly after me, and I didn't use afterburners

This does not happen until DCS is updated.So I'm confused. What's the real reason?

I've noticed this exact thing a *lot*.

 

I always give my wingdudes a lot more fuel than myself. They still always run out of gas when I have plenty left, and it's especially a problem when flying any of the jets that have afterburners.

 

I've noticed that when I'm flying straight and level in the Flanker, Fulcrum or Eagle at maybe 85-90% RPM on the gauge, my wingmen always need full afterburner to try to catch up and join the formation. When they're doing that, they can barely climb and accelerate at full AB, and invariable use up all their fuel.

 

I know that AI aircraft use different flight models from the human-piloted aircraft, but the fuel consumption is much, much too high.

 

AD

Obviously, other players have also encountered this problem

There was no such problem before DCS update

Have you looked at Tacview file from the flight what the starting fuel and RTB fuel levels for the wingman was?

Obviously, other players have also encountered this problem

There was no such problem before DCS update

Oh it's definitely existed for quite a while. I've seen this problem for the last couple of years at least. It's only going to happen on aircraft with afterburners, because the AI simply does not know how to use them efficiently. It mainly is going to happen when the AI is chasing you for formation after taking off (which is why you should loiter and wait for them, or fly very slowly to begin with) or after an engagement and they end up far away from you.

I'm fairly sure this will be fixed in the supposed AI overhaul being planned. Hopefully. Maybe.

I also don’t think this is new. Like I said, for me, its another ridiculous aspect of the ai state in this game. Don’t get me wrong, I like dcs, but wingman ai are almost useless. Indeed, even with 80-90% power, they still use afterburners a lot to catch up, sometimes laggin for miles behind and then catching up.

I hope one day they become much smarter (unless that comes at too high performance costs). Until then with non afterburning aircraft, the best solution is to have 20-30% less fuel yourself and never design missions where AI are not critical and nothing more than extra rounds. Dumbest thing I saw was a roll of 8 ai driven hornets plummeting to a mountain in pure visual day after executing a go-around on a long ass runway.

Have you looked at Tacview file from the flight what the starting fuel and RTB fuel levels for the wingman was?

In the editor I gave my wingman 80% fuel.

I'm not paying attention to Tacview file.

I refueled the wingman to 70% before the DCS update.

Wingman is the time it takes to complete the entire campaign.

But not anymore.

I've noticed this a couple of times as well in the past. Haven't kept track of it well enough to be useful in a potential bug squash but you might be on to something.

 

 

That being said...SOME of those times I was left scratching my head about why they ran out of fuel was due to their tanks being shot. Check the tracks, if they got a big hole in 'em, that might be the problem lol. If not, then yeah, I would say something is wrong.

Clearly, artificial intelligence is flawed

I also don’t think this is new. Like I said, for me, its another ridiculous aspect of the ai state in this game. Don’t get me wrong, I like dcs, but wingman ai are almost useless. Indeed, even with 80-90% power, they still use afterburners a lot to catch up, sometimes laggin for miles behind and then catching up.

 

I hope one day they become much smarter (unless that comes at too high performance costs). Until then with non afterburning aircraft, the best solution is to have 20-30% less fuel yourself and never design missions where AI are not critical and nothing more than extra rounds. Dumbest thing I saw was a roll of 8 ai driven hornets plummeting to a mountain in pure visual day after executing a go-around on a long ass runway.

Haha. I think you are right. :)

Don't expect too much from AI. It won't get to the level you want.

I should have paid more attention to my skills.

Yes, this is well known issue. My wingman always says that he is out of fuel, when he has 6000-7000 l of fuel. This is more than enought fuel.

There is a work-around if you so decide to choose. When I'm making a mission and it includes wing-men or ENY AI aircraft, at the very first way-point I set the aircraft options in the advanced way-point editor to "afterburner off." That way the flight does not use afterburner flying around until I tell it they can.

How do I do this? At another way-point, one closer to the AO, I set the advanced way-point options back to "afterburner on." That way they do not waste fuel in afterburner until needed in the combat area.

You could also set this as a radio trigger for your own flight if desired or that of the ENY. The tool/option is there to help alleviate the problems with the AI managing its own fuel consumption.

Hope this helps.

There is a work-around if you so decide to choose. When I'm making a mission and it includes wing-men or ENY AI aircraft, at the very first way-point I set the aircraft options in the advanced way-point editor to "afterburner off." That way the flight does not use afterburner flying around until I tell it they can.

 

How do I do this? At another way-point, one closer to the AO, I set the advanced way-point options back to "afterburner on." That way they do not waste fuel in afterburner until needed in the combat area.

 

You could also set this as a radio trigger for your own flight if desired or that of the ENY. The tool/option is there to help alleviate the problems with the AI managing its own fuel consumption.

 

Hope this helps.

That's quite useful actually, thanks.

There is a work-around if you so decide to choose. When I'm making a mission and it includes wing-men or ENY AI aircraft, at the very first way-point I set the aircraft options in the advanced way-point editor to "afterburner off." That way the flight does not use afterburner flying around until I tell it they can.

 

How do I do this? At another way-point, one closer to the AO, I set the advanced way-point options back to "afterburner on." That way they do not waste fuel in afterburner until needed in the combat area.

 

You could also set this as a radio trigger for your own flight if desired or that of the ENY. The tool/option is there to help alleviate the problems with the AI managing its own fuel consumption.

 

Hope this helps.

Thank you very much for your advice

It's just that I've never had a problem like this before

In the future I will pay attention to modifying them in the editor

A technique I've noticed when replaying some campaign missions in Tacview is to replace the wingman with a new fresh one. Typically, the wingman will leave the immediate vicinity of the player, be replaced with a new plane, and the new plane returns to the player. Maybe this could be used to "refresh" the wingman with full tanks?

Since there is clearly something very wrong with it, and a true fix is unlikely to come soon, I'd rather that in this case ED let wingmen cheat, and made it so no matter what they do they always have say 100lb more fuel than you do, so if they run out, you ran out a minute or two before they did, clearly not ideal, but it would "fix" them.

It's a bodge, but it'd be fairly easy to implement.

A technique I've noticed when replaying some campaign missions in Tacview is to replace the wingman with a new fresh one. Typically, the wingman will leave the immediate vicinity of the player, be replaced with a new plane, and the new plane returns to the player. Maybe this could be used to "refresh" the wingman with full tanks?

Thank you for your advice :)

Since there is clearly something very wrong with it, and a true fix is unlikely to come soon, I'd rather that in this case ED let wingmen cheat, and made it so no matter what they do they always have say 100lb more fuel than you do, so if they run out, you ran out a minute or two before they did, clearly not ideal, but it would "fix" them.

 

It's a bodge, but it'd be fairly easy to implement.

Thank you for your reply to my question :)

This is occurring with me in the cage yhr bear campaign. The wingman will not rtb. I've order him to return to base,  return to carrier.. go to tanker. Etc in every case even when I land at tge divert base they just fly around until they run out of gas and punch out. 

3 hours ago, FlyingTaco21 said:

This is occurring with me in the cage yhr bear campaign. The wingman will not rtb. I've order him to return to base,  return to carrier.. go to tanker. Etc in every case even when I land at tge divert base they just fly around until they run out of gas and punch out. 

Did you get responses from him? Also they can't land when there's foul deck or busy runway.

4 hours ago, FlyingTaco21 said:

This is occurring with me in the cage yhr bear campaign. The wingman will not rtb. I've order him to return to base,  return to carrier.. go to tanker. Etc in every case even when I land at tge divert base they just fly around until they run out of gas and punch out. 

Could be a wrong frequency if you use realistic coms. Make sure you are on the same frequency.

Some tips to manage wingman fuel: 

- wait for him on taxi before take-off, don't take off until he is right behind you (on a runway) or already hooked on the cat with deflector up (on a carrier)

- stay 500ft AGL level, slow (like Mach 0,5) and wait for him to rejoin before moving on to the next waypoint and climbing up

If you take off 1min before him because he was slow to taxi, and then you climb with full burners right away, your wingman will use full AB for a while to rejoin and already be out of gas very soon.