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S3 Refuel


Cunning_Fox

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And as for throttle I move it like 3 mm. I mean, seriously small movements. I've vertically landed a Harrier on a Carrier deck moving at 20 knots at night in storm, but this is even harder. My throttle is between 0 and 20%. Anything above that seems to make F-14 overtake the S3.

 

 

I use to have the exactly same problem, and then I adjusted the curve of my X52 Pro to 25 and put a Dead Zone of 4. Now I can easily refuel on the S3.

 

 

My curves are undajusted. Since they were unadjusted in real F-14, I am thinking why should I adjust them? And besides, if I adjust them for refuelling, they are going to be unresponsive in a dogfight. I have tried adjusting curves before up to +15 for roll and pitch and maybe -5 or +17 on pedals (depending on the airframe), but in the end I've settled on a +5 dead zone on all axes.

 

I know that the real F-14 does not have this curve, but my throttle is not the same as the F-14, that’s why I have to adjust. With this adjustment I didn’t have problems during dogfight.

 

Please, don’t take me wrong, but maybe if you increase the curve you will have better results. This is my humble opinion and maybe I’m wrong.

 

Good Luck in your flights and I hope that I could help.

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Since they were unadjusted in real F-14, I am thinking why should I adjust them?

 

Because a Tomcat pilot had 100% throttle resolution spread over (if memory serves) eight inches of travel, while you barely have three. Similarly, you have an inch and a half of stick movement in each direction, whereas the pilot had four.

 

Arguing that you shouldn't need to apply curvature for your controls, when an actual pilot used less than your total physical throw on both the stick and throttle for tanking applications, while it accounted for less than a quarter of the applied output from said controls, is rather amusing.

 

In essence, you're arguing that because his inputs were within half an inch of center, you should be able to do so within less than one eighth. Good luck with that.

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This is an F-18 but you can see how much he moves the throttle in the groove. The f-14 is going to be somewhat similar. If 3 mil of movement on the toy throttle spikes the fuel flow, it won't work at all. You need curves for it to be more realistic.

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Set throttles up as Slider axes with User Curves. Negative and positive curvature collapse or expand both ends, when what you need is to expand the center- thereby increasing resolution, and therefore control, and minimize the loss of throw on the bottom end. Linear axis settings easily lose 25% of usable range just past idle given the "flat" power curve of turbines in that region.

 

Get rid of the symmetry and increase the usable range. Stuck hand syndrome and power over/undershoots go away.

 

 

Would you mind posting a screenshot of your throttle curves?

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Because a Tomcat pilot had 100% throttle resolution spread over (if memory serves) eight inches of travel, while you barely have three. Similarly, you have an inch and a half of stick movement in each direction, whereas the pilot had four.

 

Arguing that you shouldn't need to apply curvature for your controls, when an actual pilot used less than your total physical throw on both the stick and throttle for tanking applications, while it accounted for less than a quarter of the applied output from said controls, is rather amusing.

 

In essence, you're arguing that because his inputs were within half an inch of center, you should be able to do so within less than one eighth. Good luck with that.

 

 

Don't bother trying to talk logic with this guy..I tried, look where that got me lol :lol:

 

 

Also, are people actually using a throttle not set to slider...with deadzones? WTF parallel universe is this lol

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Do you input dead zones for the throttle?

 

No sir.

 

I've gone slider, and the set negative curves to make the fuel flow rate proportional to throttle travel in the 3500 lbs to 6500 lbs range, which is where you are for landing and tanking. It just makes it so I have to go a little more past the warthog detent to get into burner, but who cares.

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I think I've got the throttes at negative 14.

 

I don’t know how to thank you enough!!! I was using first 25, then 19, then 15, but the -14 is perfect for the X52 Pro!!! Thank you!!!

 

I wasn’t having problems with refueling, but now is 10 times easier than before.

:thumbup:

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I don’t know how to thank you enough!!! I was using first 25, then 19, then 15, but the -14 is perfect for the X52 Pro!!! Thank you!!!

 

I wasn’t having problems with refueling, but now is 10 times easier than before.

:thumbup:

 

Roger that, glad it helped.

 

If you want to fine tune it further to your personal liking, go up to a few thousand feet and about 300 knots, and then move the throttle back and forth while you watch your fuel flow tape. You want smooth proportional movement of the tape matched to the throttle movement. Any big quick spikes in fuel flow is not good.


Edited by nicka117
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S3 Refuel

 

Don't bother trying to talk logic with this guy..I tried, look where that got me lol :lol:

 

 

Also, are people actually using a throttle not set to slider...with deadzones? WTF parallel universe is this lol

 

 

 

You don’t have the simplest concept of logic, which you’ve proven by making one statement and then immediately going back on it, and your reading comprehension is toddler-tier since you couldn’t even grasp the meaning of the topic I’ve stared and made a mission with a different aircraft.

 

Please go away.

 

 

—-

 

To the rest: thanks for the input, the problem is DCS crashes now despite the fact that Jester is silenced. Curves or no curves it’s hard to practice refuelling when you have 50% chance of crashing to desktop.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

S3 Refuel

 

Well, after making the F-14 finally not crash the game, I’ve tried refuelling again.

 

Needless to say, the quick missions made by heatblur are atrocious as they have put like 50 planes around you for “refuelling practice”. Thanks for making an already difficult task absolutely infuriatingly difficult for no reason at all!

 

I have concluded that it is impossible to refuel on Tomcat. I have flown sims since the early 90s and was in the top of the DCS servers for either ground attack or dogfight, but air refuelling is impossible. Curves or not, whatever the refuelling plane it’s just impossible to catch anything because for some reason F-14 just goes crazy whenever it’s close to the refuelling cone. It goes up, down, left or right, whether it is in a jets ash or not.

 

Autopilot doesn’t help, trim doesn’t help. Nothing works, except fluke. To even think that this is a routine task is incredible. Yeah, maybe once in 1,000 tries in 20+ hours and 1,000,000 gallons of fuel later. Otherwise, I am sure the real life refuelling is much easier, or they wouldn’t do it. As it stands now it’s impossible in DCS. Unless you trim the F-14 200 miles away and use microscopic adjustments on the throttle.

 

The plane either reacts violently to your inputs, however minuscule, or does not react at all.

 

 

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I have never, ever refueled middair in any sim before. I tried on the DID sims. I tried on the early Flanker Games. I tried on the AV8B. Nothing worked. And I tried it on the F14, and yes, its difficult, and yes ive put off doing it again in case I lost the knack. But I did it, and I think, personally, the F14, is one of the easier ones to do, largely because the fuel probe is so near to your line of vision. If you think this is difficult, do it in the AV8 where its above you to the left out of your vision line.

 

 

Get stabilized first. Get the probe out, get the wings to bomb, get the speed right, and trim, trim, trim. And then, and ONLY then when you have it trimmed up, go for it.

 

 

 

I could give you plenty more tips, but the best thing to do is not look at the hose, just look at the hose receiver and keep that in position, just off of centre on the right of the upper canopy frame. And when you connect run in a bit closer to the tanker, then pull off a tiny bit of power. Ive not had the joy of figures of 8's, but im willing to bet if you concentrate on his wing and the probe receiver, and put a bit of power in, it will go fine.

 

 

Dont be despondent, and dont give up. Just keep trying. It will click eventually. It took me ages by contrast to the Herc to engage with the Viking, but that came eventually too. Just concentrate on the receiver.

 

 

BTW, I have no curves on my setup. The lesson im taking from all this is, if someone manifestly unsuited for in flight refueling as myself can do it, anyone can, given enough practice.

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I have concluded that it is impossible to refuel on Tomcat. I have flown sims since the early 90s and was in the top of the DCS servers for either ground attack or dogfight, but air refuelling is impossible.

 

I can assure you that it IS very well possible to air refuel the F-14 over a broad range of alitutde airspeed. No more difficult than the A-10 or F-15 (a little easier IMHO due to the probe/drogue system).

 

Autopilot doesn’t help, trim doesn’t help. Nothing works, except fluke. To even think that this is a routine task is incredible. Yeah, maybe once in 1,000 tries in 20+ hours and 1,000,000 gallons of fuel later. Otherwise, I am sure the real life refuelling is much easier, or they wouldn’t do it. As it stands now it’s impossible in DCS. Unless you trim the F-14 200 miles away and use microscopic adjustments on the throttle.

I have no problems whatsoever to smoothly plug in the the probe into the basket and keep it there for as long as I need. This did take some training, but nowhere near 20h. AAR takes a lot of patience and smooth, tiny control inputs. What you are describing is the result of abrupt stick input, resulting in a self induced oscilation.

I understand your frustration but calling the F-14 'impossible to refuel' is simply not true.

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Phew, what a day in Tomcat forums. One guy says it's impossible to dogfight without padlock, now the other says it's impossible to AAR. Seems like it can eventually be done:

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I recommend no curves at all with the Warthog throttle, as it provides enough travel for fine adjustments at any power setting. You may want to create a custom curve with the script editor to match the physical AB detent with the one ingame.

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3 things:

 

 

1) The Hornet's throttle is a lot worse than the Tomcat's. Literally takes ages to spool

2) You just don't refuel from the S-3. The last time I did this with the Hornet after it was airborne for approx. half an hour (100% fuel on TO), it was able to give me a fuel amount just shy of 4klb until it's pilot thought he was driving a Tomcat himself and tried

, utterly failing at attempting to light the cans already. The whole crew ejected before they even had their nose up straight. In short: They just don't really have any fuel to share in the first place.

 

3) DCS has an "easy AAR" option, and it's the topmost checkbox on this very screen:

 

 

067245d89fdd5d53d7dcda9139939ed2c7a99492.jpg

 

 

Obviously, the associated hardware is required though icon_question.gif

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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S3 Refuel

 

Maybe I should clarify, I meant to say that refuelling is impossible right now for ME.

 

Not that it isn’t possible for anyone else.

 

I have spent 4 hours yesterday trying again and again.

 

Also, the damn canopy blocks everything, I can’t see the probe and what’s worse is it’s offcentre. I can’t judge how far right should it be to connect.

 

I connect with it once and then it disconnects and Jester is there laughing in the backseat “You’re teasing it, haha!”. What a jackass! I’ve silenced him.

 

I was watching MST3K “starfighter” episode (more like listening to it whilst refuelling) and there was this pilot saying “You can’t refuel in two minutes? You’re crazy!” So, I’m trying my best to also do it as fast as possible.

 

I’ve gotta say though, the module is so good. I feel like that critic in ratatouille when he tastes the dish and is taken back to childhood in a flashback, I’m having as much fun as when I first flew in sims.

 

Edit: grammar

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Edited by Cunning_Fox
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Thats right where you are going wrong. You dont LOOK at the probe. You dont LOOK at the drogue. All you look at is the drogue receiver, which you keep in the same place just to the right of the center of the upper window. Keep it there, you fly right into it.

 

 

If you are trying to coordinate a coupling, it will never work. The trick is to put your plane in the right piece of sky, and you will (if not at the first, at the second or third try) couple right up. Dont rush it. If he pulls the hose in, recontact the tanker, and go again.

 

 

Ill be the first to admit VR does help. But I honestly think if you trim it right, and keep the receiver in the window, sooner or later its a done deal. It was for me, and im notably crap at it. :D

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