Mouse based flight control (see video)

For those of us travelling, or those gamers who are not able to invest in a good HOTAS, I believe having mouse based flight control such as in the example below would make DCS a hugely more playable, perhaps even opening it to a new audience thanks to the accessibility factor. :smilewink:

As you can see in the first and last part of the video, the plane turns towards the big circle, which is controlled by the mouse. Very intuitive and accurate way to fly.

Honestly that’s so frustrating and awkward why bother. DCS is too complex for the average gamer. Anyone taking the leap into this sim is going to get a joystick. Mouse control is for arcade style flying games and not sims.

There's another sim that I will never play that allows for this for people to think a joystick is too much to pay for. Not interested in seeing that happen to DCS.

If I'm not completely mistaken, ED actually is working on this, for MAC.

Honestly that’s so frustrating and awkward why bother. DCS is too complex for the average gamer. Anyone taking the leap into this sim is going to get a joystick. Mouse control is for arcade style flying games and not sims.

And indeed DCS does have quite a lot of settings to allow for various modes of play including "game mode". So this would just be another extension of the settings we already have. It certainly wouldn't take away anything from the hardcore sim side of it.

Aren't there some other sims (cough! cough! sorry) - games! that you can play like this?

Aren't there some other sims (cough! cough! sorry) - games! that you can play like this?

Exactly, they are games :-) And they do not come close to DCS in many regards. I don't think any even have interactive cockpits.

If I take my laptop on a business trip, I'd love to play DCS and actually enjoy it (instead of fighting the keyboard).

And indeed DCS does have quite a lot of settings to allow for various modes of play including "game mode".

Does anyone actually use “game mode”? Why would you buy a $70 module and play it with a mouse or in game mode? This type of player wants arcade flying games and doesn’t buy DCS

Does anyone actually use “game mode”? Why would you buy a $70 module and play it with a mouse or in game mode? This type of player wants arcade flying games and doesn’t buy DCS

I'm this type of player. Often I'm in a hotel, and I want an in depth flight experience, but I don't have the luxury of lugging around tons of gear with me.

I also believe the accessibility factor would work to DCS's advantage - get people to enjoy the first, get them confident that they can handle such a detailed sim, and then they might consider slowly buying the $1200~ worth of peripherals required to get the most of of DCS.

Obviously you wouldn't use it because you've got all of the gear already. But for someone who's new to DCS, they aren't going to buy so much gear, and probably argue with their wife about how much space it takes up etc.

You have to remember DCS is free - loads of people would be trying it out, if you can sell them a module, then that's a good thing for DCS and ED. But they aren't going to buy any modules if can't enjoy the sim with the standard input a PC provides.

DCS is also overwhelming for new players. If they can make it into a jet, and can't fly on their first go, you can bet they will likely be uninstalling pretty fast. It's a missed opportunity.

That's the purpose of MAC, to cater to the non-sim casual community. Mouse flight is a specifically mentioned goal.

As for trying to shoehorn that into a ''hardcore flightsim''....

If you've got $60 for a plane module, you've got $20 for a cheap stick. Seriously, what's the reasoning with people's purchasing priorities? I see folks with a $800 1080ti but that last few dollars to not use a mouse just really breaks the bank! You don't need $1200 worth of peripherals. You need $20-50. Less than the cost of the module the person is failing at using @@

If somebody's new to flightsims and want to see if they'll like it, they should probably start with something less complicated in the first place. Dumbing down DCS itself to any significant extent isn't going to be helpful.

While back I saw a guy complaiming.he bought a $2000 PC just because he saw a DCS video on YouTube but he was ranting about how his 25yo stick.dug out of the attic had a gameport and wouldn't work or something. $2000 for a video he saw. Unwilling to buy cheap stick.

Btw, the SUPER SUPER CASUAL NEVER TOUCHED A FLIGHTSIM crow will never touch DCS. You're not ''missing a marketshare''. It's about as backasswards as thinking that Ferrarri missed out by not catering to the people buying eco-electric hybrids. Totally different markets. People buying a Leaf are not the same kind of people that will be in the market for an Italian exotic. There is no overlap there.

That's the purpose of MAC, to cater to the non-sim casual community. Mouse flight is a specifically mentioned goal.

 

As for trying to shoehorn that into a ''hardcore flightsim''....

 

 

If you've got $60 for a plane module, you've got $20 for a cheap stick. Seriously, what's the reasoning with people's purchasing priorities? I see folks with a $800 1080ti but that last few dollars to not use a mouse just really breaks the bank! You don't need $1200 worth of peripherals. You need $20-50. Less than the cost of the module the person is failing at using @@

 

If somebody's new to flightsims and want to see if they'll like it, they should probably start with something less complicated in the first place. Dumbing down DCS itself to any significant extent isn't going to be helpful.

I don't think it's dumbing down DCS, it's simply making the it more accessible, and that's only a good thing for new comers - without changing our experience of DCS at all. Think of it as a gateway to get people hooked ;-)

As long as the mouse controls work like OP's video when you are in the cockpit view too, then I can see it being a good option.

If someone has to $20-$50 to spend, I'd imagine ED would rather that money goes to them, instead of a stick manufacturer.

The other thing is, a 1080ti is going to be useful for a whole manner of games and sims, where as a HOTAS is basically useless outside of DCS and perhaps that one popular space simulator which has been in alpha for the last 7 years :P. But it's easier to justify the cost of a graphics card because of the many uses.

Btw, the SUPER SUPER CASUAL NEVER TOUCHED A FLIGHTSIM crow will never touch DCS. You're not ''missing a marketshare''. It's about as backasswards as thinking that Ferrarri missed out by not catering to the people buying eco-electric hybrids. Totally different markets. People buying a Leaf are not the same kind of people that will be in the market for an Italian exotic. There is no overlap there.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I started with LOMAC in game mode..... :-)

btw Ferrari released what are essentially 4 door hatchbacks some years ago, as well as the Porsche SUVs :P

Ferrari FF and also this

If somebody's new to flightsims and want to see if they'll like it, they should probably start with something less complicated in the first place. Dumbing down DCS itself to any significant extent isn't going to be helpful.

Adding options can never dumb anything down. Quite the opposite. And DCS is already dumbed down as far as it can ever get by having arrow-key flight controls.

DCS binds already need to be made far more flexible and less tied down to the random assumptions of the developer, letting people set up whatever complex input system they like without arbitrary limitations. This is just another one of those restrictions that has no place in a modern game to begin with, and which would only improve DCS if it were removed.

Really the wrong demographics for DCS. ED is already making MAC to cater to that demographic. As far as I recall they did even mention mouse control being a thing for MAC when it comes.

Clicky-pits is an essential part of DCS, failing that mouse is also the device for looking around for people without head tracking equipment like myself. Are we arguing that a person would not be able to afford an entry level flight stick, but has no issue in getting a head tracking device? Sounds odd to me :)

Really the wrong demographics for DCS. ED is already making MAC to cater to that demographic. As far as I recall they did even mention mouse control being a thing for MAC when it comes.

 

Clicky-pits is an essential part of DCS, failing that mouse is also the device for looking around for people without head tracking equipment like myself. Are we arguing that a person would not be able to afford an entry level flight stick, but has no issue in getting a head tracking device? Sounds odd to me :)

No, we're arguing that sometimes you'd like to get a bit of flight-time in without having access to the wardrobe-full of peripherals that DCS players tend to accumulate over time.

Hell, even on my main DCS computer it would be very handy as an option when testing missions, since it's a bit of a faff to go between the mouse/kb UI of the mission and the HOTAS+TIR scheme needed to quickly fly through and test out what you've made.

If they're already implementing mouse control into MAC, there's pretty much zero reason not to port that over to DCS as well.

I don’t think mouse flight control would be used enough in DCS to be feasible for ED to develop it.

This mouse style control is really for people who have no idea how an aircraft is controlled and it’s basically for sky shooter games. The mouse doesn’t emulate stick axis inputs, it flies the plane wherever you point the cursor. It needs an auto rudder since there is no axis for that. So it’s not that simple to implement.

Personally I find controlling aircraft without a flight stick utterly impossible. The Y axis is inverted compared to normal mouse usage or FPS games. If you are used to a flight stick or even know that pulling back on it makes you go up, it’s simply an impossible reflex to unlearn.

I would never even attempt to play DCS without the flight controls like on a laptop or something, the frustration factor would be too high.

There have been various requests over time from disabled people for such a feature, and I pushed for it, back when I had the ear of the people in ED who could make it happen. Nothing came of it however.

Nate

Who even cares, let mousers be mousers.

Doesn't affect me. If ED want's to cater to that, let them. Doesn't affect me and won't get BUTT HURT by what someone uses to control their aircraft. Just be happy there is an erratic flying aircraft for you to shoot at.

It's just a GAME! (Detailed Flight Sim) :pilotfly:

Just be happy there is an erratic flying aircraft for you to shoot at.

In other flight sims with mouse control, it’s a server setting and usually locked for joystick only on most servers, the realistic kind. There are no “game mode” servers I’ve ever seen in DCS so likely it wouldn’t be available for multiplayer. Mouse control can actually have an advantage over joysticks so “realistic” servers will lock it out.

Honestly I'm okay with divining rods. If that's what makes people happy then so be it.

In other flight sims with mouse control, it’s a server setting and usually locked for joystick only on most servers, the realistic kind. There are no “game mode” servers I’ve ever seen in DCS so likely it wouldn’t be available for multiplayer. Mouse control can actually have an advantage over joysticks so “realistic” servers will lock it out.

Ah, so this is what such strong opposition is really about. You're worried someone will out fly your $1200 set up, with just a feeble mouse :music_whistling:

Ah, so this is what such strong opposition is really about. You're worried someone will out fly your $1200 set up, with just a feeble mouse :music_whistling:

It depends on how mouse control is done. But if it’s some form of auto-flying your plane then it doesn’t belong on the same playing field as flight controls. A mouse can’t out-fly s stick because it’s only doing limited inputs. But it can potentially out-aim sticks.

Mouse flying games are point and click sky shooters, there’s not actual flying.

And where do you get this $1,200 figure from? My flight controls cost $300 total.

Funnily enough, a sufficiently advanced FBW system creates the same “not actual flying” as mouse control — indeed, it's essentially how many FBW systems operate at a higher level. Doubly funny is that DCS already has a couple of airplanes with such sufficiently advanced FBWs, and we can already achieve with those planes what people fear the most out of mouse flying. :D

Whatever, but it should support 1000hz mouse right !?!?! ... I just bought Razer Mamba Elite and on 1000hz I get the same jittery camera movement issue I got before.

I don't know if it's a freak bug with my HW/OS that more people aren't reporting it or what but the bug is still there.

It's interesting to debate whether it be restricted to a "game mode", but isn't MAC itself "the gamemode standalone client".