Hints and Tips for the F-5E BFM Campaign

I was referring to this one:

http://navyflightmanuals.tpub.com/P-821/Chapter-Nine-Basic-Fighter-Maneuvering-Theory-191.htm

that looks like a good read but is it available in a downloadable pdf somewhere?

So far the best I can do against the 3 F-5s in the first BFM practice mission is get to keep myself alive fighting till the vul time has elapsed

or, I get them to break the hard deck resulting in a win for me.

Hi guys,

I’d love to contribute a bit more. I decided to refly the BFM and ACM campaigns and do some videos about. I already flew the first BFM against the F-5s. Got a good record and trackview, but did not prepare the movie.

It will take a while to publish these videos as I am “deployed” in Africa only to come back home in June.

All I could recommend is to practice and read the Shaw’s book “Fighter Combat - Tatics and Maneuvering”.

If you want, you may see one of my old YT videos:

All the best,

Sydy

I just got one hell of a snapshot kill after barrel rolls against the 2nd F-5 in the ACT fight against 3 other F-5s unfortunately the vul time expired for the other 2 engagements.

see the track, I mean it was one of those use the force Luke moments lol...

https://filebin.net/1tbi4wzh1l19rq0m/snapshot.trk

TQ Maple Flag!

Thanks Maple Flag, absolute love the BFM campaign & mission package that I went out and get the ACM Campaign as well. Freaking hard to get on the tails of these high performance jets, they make use of their high Thrust to weight ratio and always go vertical. It's satisfying to be able to survive the 5 mins vul time, more so if I manage to get a kill from a deflection shot. The instructor's advice is true to the letter - "Lose Sight, Lose the fight". Just out of curiosity though, in real life, "Showtime" & "Blackjack" are US Air Force units?

Glad you are enjoying them.

Yes Blackjack and Showtime are real entities. We listened to alot of actual Red Flag radio audio and researched online and through books when developing the campaign.

I'm surprised I haven't read about anyone else having trouble with fuel.

Even if I get to the engagement area with all of my internal fuel left for the dogfights, I'm still so depleted by the end, that I can't get back home.

And I have to go full burner in the fights, otherwise I'll be at a big disadvantage. Any tips?

It is imperative that you're at full internal fuel when you reach India and can drop your tank before the 1st engagement. Once you are off the runway you won't need to touch your burners until the G-awareness test (even then they aren't required but I normally have enough fuel anyway). Make sure to climb to 30000 feet for both ingress and egress you use a lot less fuel up high and maintain around 300knots on the ingress (this can be higher as longer as you're not using AB but it definitely should not be lower). Also once airborne change your flaps from auto to up it'll allow you to pick up speed faster.

No need to rush to return to India or call ready. Make sure you are facing east again before you call ready so you aren't burning energy needless turning around at the start of the 2nd engagement.

If you're at full burner for the full 10 minutes for both fights you won't have enough fuel to make it back, but may have enough to get the mission complete after you exit. This really comes down to you need to defeat the opponents quite quickly if you want to fly all the way back (in my opinion you should, otherwise you haven't really passed the mission but I understand why there is the option to finish the mission early). If you're slightly naughty and ignore the minimum range for gun attacks rule you can often score a kill on the 1st merge and is probably the easiest way of killing the computer opponents.

Thought I'd chime in a bit to provide perspective from a relatively new player (6 mo). First of all, you have to love and appreciate any and all of these campaigns. They are a large part of what pulled me into my DCS purchase and how I envisioned long term fun. You have to respect and appreciate the time it takes to create wonderful campaigns such as this.

After spending the last 3-6 months getting to fly the p51 and then the F5 I definitely have become very comfortable in the F5. I took my time, read the manual, watched videos, successfully completed all training and "built in F5 missions" etc.

All that being said . . . even the first mission here F5 1v1 w. guns is tough. It just is. I've watched the videos in this thread and really appreciated the video on page 2 here where someone shows how he approaches the f5 1v1 with guns. I can mimic his approach (after flyby he seems to pull up and left and then kind of turn over - pardon my casual explanation here!) and at least survive the encounter but shooting down the f5 is hard. Respectfully, I would request and even recommend an easier option here. For the veterans I don't blame you guys for providing a realistic and tough experience. For us newer guys, it can be discouraging to purchase a campaign and after 10 tries (practice missions provided are GREAT! but its silly that they are so hard to find) still not be able to take out the f5. I'm only trying to provide constructive feedback. The voice work, mood, and setting is top notch. Knowing the way I am, I'll try another 10 or 20 times and eventually through watching videos and learning win.

It will be rewarding when I finally take out the other F5 but if you wanted to widen a capture audience I'd offer an easier version of the mission perhaps. Then this version can still be available as well.

Very classy and well done. Just a bit tough.

I can confirm that that campaign is super difficult. It's incredibly hard to get behind the opponent and let some rounds off.

Also, you need to be quick, as you only have 5 minutes for each opponent.

The main way I have been able to win engagements is by forcing the enemy below the hard deck.

This is fine in my view. ACM isn't meant to be easy. If you model an aircraft and a combat environment to such a realistic degree, you can't expect to be blowing people out of the sky left and right.

I'm still having trouble with my fuel management though. Even if I drop my tanks just before the first engagement, I burn so much fuel in the dogfights, that I can't get home. The only way I can think of to achieve this mission and to get home to talk about it, is to kill the opponents within the first two minutes, which ich nigh impossible.

How realistic is it, that pilots are left with such a lack of fuel after ACM training? Is this something that they need to contend with in real life? It seems incredibly dangerous.

I agree that the campaign, although fantastic (see Sydy's videos) is extremely difficult for me. I had to abandon it in the first mission. For sure the problem is that I need more training in ACM.

I'm surprised I haven't read about anyone else having trouble with fuel.

 

Even if I get to the engagement area with all of my internal fuel left for the dogfights, I'm still so depleted by the end, that I can't get back home.

 

And I have to go full burner in the fights, otherwise I'll be at a big disadvantage. Any tips?

It's a shame you cant actually land at the airport in the Container.

I think Container is made for emergencies and running on fumes is one of them..

Just bought this. How do I get past where the C-130 is landing and parking?

Thanks,

Just bought this. How do I get past where the C-130 is landing and parking?

Thanks,

You just wait till it says mission complete or something like that

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You just wait till it says mission complete or something like that

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope.

Once the C-130 comes to a stop you should see some messages indicating that the mission has ended. Press ESC and then end the mission. Then the campaign will continue from there.

I appreciate the realism and that it is difficult. I really do.

From a sales perspective and enjoyment for newer DCS folks like myself, this campaign is basically a waste of money. I can't get beyond the first mission and accept I'm not a pro pilot. Ok, gotcha. I'm not of the top 5% of pilots that can complete this. No problem. Still, a bit too hard for us regular folks and I'll keep this campaign in the back pile of impossible to complete most likely.

Guess it's good we have a couple campaigns out there for the ultra realism crowd. Maybe someday I'll get there too!

that looks like a good read but is it available in a downloadable pdf somewhere?

 

So far the best I can do against the 3 F-5s in the first BFM practice mission is get to keep myself alive fighting till the vul time has elapsed

 

or, I get them to break the hard deck resulting in a win for me.

I recommend the BFM sections of the 800 and 1200 series here https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs-pat-pubs.asp The T-45 is similar in performance to the F-5. T-2 stuff is pretty old and will have difference due to the performance but concepts should be almost unchanged.

I appreciate the realism and that it is difficult. I really do.

 

From a sales perspective and enjoyment for newer DCS folks like myself, this campaign is basically a waste of money. I can't get beyond the first mission and accept I'm not a pro pilot. Ok, gotcha. I'm not of the top 5% of pilots that can complete this. No problem. Still, a bit too hard for us regular folks and I'll keep this campaign in the back pile of impossible to complete most likely.

 

Guess it's good we have a couple campaigns out there for the ultra realism crowd. Maybe someday I'll get there too!

If you browse in the campaign folder you can notice there are practice mission where you can spawn directly on India against the aircraft that you want.

It's not easy , AI is very aware of your position , more than humans , so its good training for MP battles.

I appreciate the realism and that it is difficult. I really do.

 

From a sales perspective and enjoyment for newer DCS folks like myself, this campaign is basically a waste of money. I can't get beyond the first mission and accept I'm not a pro pilot. Ok, gotcha. I'm not of the top 5% of pilots that can complete this. No problem. Still, a bit too hard for us regular folks and I'll keep this campaign in the back pile of impossible to complete most likely.

 

Guess it's good we have a couple campaigns out there for the ultra realism crowd. Maybe someday I'll get there too!

Maybe you didn't notice but the campaign will progress to the next mission even if you aren't successful in each engagement (just like in real life).

So it is possible to play the entire campaign and not win any engagements!

You actually might find some success against some of the other aircraft.

Sydy and MrPilot have some good videos. Watching them might help teach you some techniques.

With practice you will learn what works best for you.

Sydy:

MrPilot:

I agree that the campaign, although fantastic (see Sydy's videos) is extremely difficult for me. I had to abandon it in the first mission. For sure the problem is that I need more training in ACM.

https://www.87th.org/sites/default/files/Downloads/Training/extratraining/Basic%20Employment%20Manual%20AFTTP%203-3%20Vol%205%20.pdf

http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/Basic-Employment-Manual-F-16C-RoKAF.pdf

Chapter 4.

Nothing more... nothing less...

Necropost here. Revisiting this campaign now that I have some time. Where are these practice missions located these days, within the folder structure?

Same location as the campaign files. You need to open them using the mission editor.

Typically:

<drive letter>:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\campaigns\F-5E BFM

Same location as the campaign files. You need to open them using the mission editor.

 

Typically:

<drive letter>:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\campaigns\F-5E BFM

Found them. Thanks!

So far those F-5's are pure insanity to fight against...how can they retain energy so well and pull so many G's without bleeding E like I do?

"Is it possible to learn this power?"

Anyway...3 for 3 on Practice mode. I can reliably force them into the Hard Deck for a maneuver kill, at least. Too bad I can't get a good enough view on them to aim in time before they zoom by. Visually, the F-5 is microscopic and I would be terrified to face off against one WVR because of this.

Honestly the main thing this campaign showcases right now is how badly DCS is in need of an AI overhaul :( Which is such a shame because it's a well made and immersive campaign setup with great voice acting and I'd love to actually enjoy flying it.

However 1v1s in the F-5 demonstrate pretty much everything that's wrong with the current state of AI. The induced drag for having full fuel and the recording pod on my jet, contrasted with the absolute lack of even ballpark drag modeling, the absence of stalling behaviour and the lack of altitude performance degradation on the opposing jets means you're always at a huge energy disadvantage.

I don't know if they changed anything to the AI but in no way is their behaviour in my training sessions even close to comparable to what I see in Sydy's video unless I lobotomize their skill setting.

The only way of beating them for me is through high aspect snapshots or to wait for them to inevitably fly into the hard deck. Which is hardly reliable, or satisfying.

Visually, the F-5 is microscopic and I would be terrified to face off against one WVR because of this.

Recently watched an interview with an F-14 and F-5 aggressor pilot, he asserted that the small size was it's main quality in DACT. "You see the F-5, you beat the F-5. You don't see the F-5, it's gonna get you."

Works great against other players, not at all against AI unfortunately :/