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Carrier comms - Mini Updates


oldcrusty

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The proper solution does not involve giving anything away — even in parts. It involves letting people play together as they always have, thereby giving them a reason to actually buy the module at all, over time even encouraging others to buy it as well.

 

And how does that solution work in your eyes? I have played over many ideas in my head and I don't see too many that work without giving away some aspect of the module. And honestly that is my answer as well, gawd it would be nice to remove the block, but I don't know how to do it.

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Ok, guys let me try and give you some scenarios.

 

1) ED gives away the carrier model as the core, or a lo-res representation. Now you have non-owners landing willy nilly on the carrier, messing up owners carrier landings, running over their crew, and general immersion breaking.

 

2) ED makes the module "invisible" to non-purchasers, but they can still join the server. Then these people see a ghost ship floating around, invisible with hornets floating in mid-air, or enemy aircraft are unable to engage the carrier.

 

3) Model no collision or ability to land. Again, immersion breaking, people that don't own it flying through the carrier, again enemy aircraft cant interact, etc.

 

4) ED just gives away the module free as a core update. ED is still a business, and we maintain a lot of free content with the core game already. At some point, there needs to be a return on investment. The time and effort that has gone into this so far are immense. It will pave the way for many core game improvements, both with tech improvements and simply keeping the lights on.

 

We will do the very best, to make this accessible as we can, but it has to work for both sides. I would hope most of you want us to be around for a while. We want to make sure we are to continue bringing you these best content out there. And just know, anyone that wants a great carrier experience will want this module.

 

The problem is when your on a carrier you warp into someone anyway wrecking there flight before they even land lol.

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Not at all, I am trying to open your guy's eyes to all the issues with giving it away. There is no bad faith, at the end of the day ED is a business, we are not making games with billions of users, we are not rolling in cash, but at times we are making modules well above and beyond the development costs and time than that of your favourite cookie cutter MMO or FPS.

 

Arguing that the reason for this is "immersion" , then admitting that the real reason is "we think this will get us the most cash" after several others point out how nonsensical the "this inhibits trolls" argument is, sounds like a textbook case of a bad faith argument to me.

 

I think you are incorrect that this is the best way to make money on this module, but you saying so isn't condescending or disingenuous the way that telling me that this is the way to protect module owners from "trolls" is.

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Don't worry - this won't be a problem. In the way you've set it up, nobody will use it in MP anyway, and few people will buy it at all.

 

I guess if no ones buys it, then we will have to look at it a different way, but what this module is offering will be hard to resist for anyone that wants to really experience the carrier in a different way, and beyond just landing a plane on it.

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Especially given Heatblur's upcoming carrier will be free to everyone.

 

Will it?

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

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Arguing that the reason for this is "immersion" , then admitting that the real reason is "we think this will get us the most cash" after several others point out how nonsensical the "this inhibits trolls" argument is, sounds like a textbook case of a bad faith argument to me.

 

I think you are incorrect that this is the best way to make money on this module, but you saying so isn't condescending or disingenuous the way that telling me that this is the way to protect module owners from "trolls" is.

 

You are reading it how you want, but that is not what I said.... and have repeated over and over.

 

I gave you MP scenarios AND also told you about the financial toll, if you can't see past that, then I can't help you, but no one is deceiving you.

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And how does that solution work in your eyes?

As described over and over and over in the last couple of pages: make it inert and uninteractable for people who haven't paid.

 

You will be “giving away” a single static object. In return, you will recuperate the sales you would have lost by making it irrelevant to most larger community servers.

❧ ❧ Inside you are two wolves. One cannot land; the other shoots friendlies. You are a Goon. ❧ ❧

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Don't worry - this won't be a problem. In the way you've set it up, nobody will use it in MP anyway, and few people will buy it at all.

 

Especially given Heatblur's upcoming carrier will be free to everyone.

 

Not free, you need to purchase the F-14 dont you?

 

We also have free carriers in the sim... but when it comes to the ultimate carrier experience, we went the module route.

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As described over and over and over in the last couple of pages: make it inert and uninteractable for people who haven't paid.

 

You will be “giving away” a single static object. In return, you will recuperate the sales you would have lost by making it irrelevant to most larger community servers.

 

That will be mission breaking to have an object, that as far as I know can be targeted and killed, now and invincible base of operations if your opponent doesn't have the module.

 

It is not a static object, a cow is a static object, not a carrier.

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That will be mission breaking to have an object, that as far as I know can be targeted and killed, now and invincible base of operations if your opponent doesn't have the module.

Static objects can be targeted and killed just fine. We have GBU-31s for a reason.

 

It is not a static object, a cow is a static object, not a carrier.

Now that you mention it, placeable livestock in the static object list would liven up a couple of scenarios I've been working on… :D

 

Anyway, ok, fine. I'll be precise. For the player who hasn't paid it will effectively be a static object.


Edited by Tippis

❧ ❧ Inside you are two wolves. One cannot land; the other shoots friendlies. You are a Goon. ❧ ❧

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I get that this is a module add on and as such you feel like there is a cost. to me the ATC is a core module for any flight sim and if you don't charge for the base game that's on you ED.

 

The carrier separately as its own module makes sense in some parts. I just think its more segregation.

 

If you want more money to churn out more high fidelity modules or charge for the base game in some capacity.

 

Making core addons a purchasable item will only alienate multiplayers

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How do we go from "Every player on an MP server, even if you only fly Air Force planes has to own it" to "FREE". That's not the sentiment I read, for the most part, we expect to pay for features. Ones we can actually USE.

 

First off, fix what doesn't work on the MP Stennis, including spawns, space for F-14's to spawn without killing each other, Communications, Tacan, etc. Good list to complete there.

 

But to say you're fixing all that (add some extra eye candy and a canned ATC) and calling the fix Payware and making it a PayWall for MP? Doesn't really make sense either if that's what you're trying to say. It is NOT the same as a map where everyone plays across levels of aircraft and services in the DCS World.

 

MP all you want, just don't mix Air Force, ground attack, JTAC, field ATC, with a fully functional carrier, or everyone pays. That's what makes no sense at all Wags.

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There is more potential for game breaking when a player who doesn't have the module is trying to interact with it, or use it in any form.

 

We have not found a solution that works for 100% of trolls, and it's not just trolls, it could be someone new that doesn't know any better...

 

Just saying, you need to look at the entire picture.

 

 

I completely appreciate where you're coming from, and no solution will ever combat 100% of trolls, but I feel there becomes a point where trying to shield people can become detrimental.

 

And yes a new player who doesn't know any better could cause issues with the carrier, along with pretty much any other aspect of the game, because they're new and don't know any better.

 

And this is about the big picture, this isn't coming from a place of pettiness where I don't want to pay for a carrier module but would love to squeeze out as much content as I can from it's inclusion anyway. It's about being able to play along side those who do want that carrier experience. If people can play with the new carrier on a server without owning it, most of the servers will use it, providing more places where it can be used, and I would end up buying it. But if realistically most servers aren't going to implement it, and it basically requires all my friends to get it too even those who want to fly MiGs against me, there is no point in me buying it, because they wont.

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I get that this is a module add on and as such you feel like there is a cost. to me the ATC is a core module for any flight sim and if you don't charge for the base game that's on you ED.

 

The carrier separately as its own module makes sense in some parts. I just think its more segregation.

 

If you want more money to churn out more high fidelity modules or charge for the base game in some capacity.

 

Making core addons a purchasable item will only alienate multiplayers

 

 

This isn't the core ATC this is the ATC for one module. The Nimitz. The core ATC is coming on the advances made here, and also on the ROI here as well, modules are what keep the core game and core additions free.

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And this is about the big picture, this isn't coming from a place of pettiness where I don't want to pay for a carrier module but would love to squeeze out as much content as I can from it's inclusion anyway. It's about being able to play along side those who do want that carrier experience. If people can play with the new carrier on a server without owning it, most of the servers will use it, providing more places where it can be used, and I would end up buying it. But if realistically most servers aren't going to implement it, and it basically requires all my friends to get it too even those who want to fly MiGs against me, there is no point in me buying it, because they wont.

 

This is exactly it; I'm participating in this discussion because I want this for free but because I do want to pay for and use it.

 

And there's no way I will, nor anyone I fly with, if it gets implemented in this way.

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NineLine… I don’t envy the job you do on these forums! I do however marvel at you patience and excellent ability to rationalize every situation!

 

I feel everyone's pain, I was you guys not too long ago, I don't forget. Every penny I have is important to me, but I also see deep inside the development and hard work that goes into all these products. There has to be a balance, and whether people want to believe it or not, ED does their best to try and find the best solution, and even change if they can.

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I feel everyone's pain, I was you guys not too long ago, I don't forget. Every penny I have is important to me, but I also see deep inside the development and hard work that goes into all these products. There has to be a balance, and whether people want to believe it or not, ED does their best to try and find the best solution, and even change if they can.

 

Did you register my tangible cringe of pain reading his post?

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I guess if no ones buys it, then we will have to look at it a different way, but what this module is offering will be hard to resist for anyone that wants to really experience the carrier in a different way, and beyond just landing a plane on it.

 

On the contrary - it's hard to find a reason to buy it now.

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This is exactly it; I'm participating in this discussion because I want this for free but because I do want to pay for and use it.

 

And there's no way I will, nor anyone I fly with, if it gets implemented in this way.

 

That is your option, I believe and have seen many people that are very interested in purchasing this. And I have passed on concerns to the team, and they are all known, right now this is the best solution if someone figures out something better, then great.

 

No one can force you guys to buy anything. But we also have to protect our investment to a degree, and YES this even includes how this product displays in MP, I can see all the crazy videos now if some of the scenarios I listed were to go live... believe it or not, they can impact sales as well... as I said, ED has a tough job balancing all this.

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