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Farlander

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Good luck.

 

Mola_Ram_(ToD).jpg

 

You have until tomorrow to give an announcement before I launch a Leatherneck boycott due to your breaking of the EU human rights act ;)

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Project IX Cockpit

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Does the AJS variant has a ground radar? As far as I know, the AJ has one, while the JA has none. But I don't know about the AJS?

 

I'm asking because one of the features of the new aircraft is a ground radar.

 

Yes it does, as mentioned it is a combination and modernisation of the AJ with added reconnaissance capabilites (S=Spaning=Reconnaissance in swedish.)

 

The AJS also had the following upgrades compared to the AJ:

 

  • The new processor and the MIL-STB 1553B databus.
  • A MIL-STD 1760 "universal" stores interface system.
  • An improved RWR system that also had a data recording function, giving it a bit of electronic intelligence capability.
  • A new mission planning system, with mission plans downloaded into a data cartridge that was plugged into the aircraft []as part of flight preparations. The cartridge stored flight data during the mission, and was yanked out at the end of the mission for review on a mission computer.
  • Capability of carrying Rb 15F Anti ship missile (the same one carried by Gripen)
  • Capability of carrying up to 6 Rb74 (Swedish designation for AIM-9L)
  • Capability of carrying Bomkapsel 90 (Also carried by Gripen)
  • Its radar was also upgraded to a similar or identical specification to that of the PS-371/A on the SH 37, allowing the AJS 37 to perform radar reconnaissance flights. Unlike the SH 37 the AJS 37 could not carry external reconnaissance pods.

 

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Edited by RaXha
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Oh yeah I forgot it and typhoon.

We desperately need a russian fighters. Red vs blue events will be so unfair.

 

They already are, just check the statistics on the Situational Awareness. They will be even more so if we don't get a modern Red fighter.

 

It's certainly OT, but there were probably more factors involved.

 

One of the tactics Harrier pilots used and that caught the Argentinians by surprise is Harrier's ability to fly at extremely slow speed and hover. They used that to get the enemy to overshoot and then send a missile up their six. In a modified way that's exctly the ability thrust vectoring gives Su-30.

 

I agree that is more than time to the creation of some russian airframe from the 80's to par with the F18 and the mirage...

 

I agree, but modify that to 2000's, not the 80's. We already have plenty enough and too many frames from the 80's, now we need something modern and up-to-date.

 

Don't forget that one of it's enemies will be one of the newest and best fighters in the world, the Eurofighter.

 

Which makes me wonder, isn't it classified? How could the developers get enough documentation for a module? Why can't a Su-35 or a MiG-35 be made then?

 

I'd love to see another cold war jet, the English Electric Lightning.

One of my all time favourite jet aircraft.

 

IIRC there already some British planes announced, Vulcan, Vampyre and so on?

 

I'm pretty certain a well modeled Viggen will sell just fine.

 

If the market was big enough, the size of MSFS, then it would've been a commercial unsuccess.

 

The thing is that the community is so small and the offerings so few and far between (and many players seem quite affluent) it's quite possible that almost any module gets grabbed up just to be able to fly something new for a change, especially during sales. Even if that person never cared for that plane or will even fly it longer than a few weeks the more affluent player will still buy the module.

 

Thus it's simply impossible to foretell how the module will fare commercially.

 

especially one that is not very likely to find reliable declassified data on like a modern Sukhoi. Mirage F1 and Mirage 2000C hardly count among "super-duper-modern" at all, arguably, not even the Tomcat..

 

The Indians have Su-30s, plus plenty of other countries and the Americans and the British have had plenty of chance to see them up close, study them and see their worth in air combat against own planes. I have no doubt the various intelligence agencies have produced thousands of pages of reports on this plane and what it's capable of. And I'm pretty sure they're objective in their assesment.

 

Thus, not only is it being exported and thus it's secretiveness is in question and documentation not necessarily being out-of-reach, but it's also quite realistic that enough data (and REAL data, not Red-bashing, Blue-glorifying propaganda) is available in the West to serve as development documentation. Either publicly accessible or through FoIA. Or LNS could just ask any of the other air forces that fly them, their pilots would probably help.

 

I'm not very familiar with the plane, but what is so good about MiG-23 that quite a few people want it? From the little I know it's old and not really competitive nowadays.

 

This includes lack of appreciation you seem to have towards a possible module smile.gif.

 

I've been ill for the entire past week which also means unending splitting headaches and just a few minutes ago someone elsewhere riled me up, so please forgive me if I'm suffering a sense of humor failure and responded a bit too sharply. I tried to edit it after several readings, but I'm still feeling my brain throb in agony when I move even for a mm. :beer:

 

Well I don't have any appreciation for a plane I never cared about and am not gonna apologise for it. We're also not getting these planes for free and they're actually quite expensive. Each plane is the price of a full game and to operate them properly you need peripherals that cost pretty penny as well. I know too many people who can't afford these modules even on 70% sale.

 

The problem is not the plane itself, it's the bigger picture.

 

It's the tactical imbalance in the game that will become horrific when all the modules we talk about get released. Just think of the Eurofighter which IS a super-duper plane.

 

I'm not talking about deathmatch competitiveness. I'm one of the players who flies for enjoyment and not stats, but when you get killed again and again without being able to mount a good resistance because the enemy has such good kit it simply overwhelms you with it (especially if they're good pilots to begin with and also have numbers on their side) it takes all the enjoyment out of the game for me. It's one of the reasons I stopped flying on 104. It just wasn't fun anymore.

 

There are already too few planes in development and ALL OF THEM are known to be Western kit. And then there is this one unknown... it could be either. Thus this one plane is crucial, it's significance is bigger than it is itself.

 

It can either help restore balance at least a little or it will further the "unfairness" of the situation.

 

It will either make it still sensible to fly Red in the face of all the modern opposition or it will help convince players to abandon the red side.

 

As you know, Red side has 3 fighters younger than 40 years and, against the flood of Western kit coming, it doesn't look this situation will change for at least the next 2 years. At least I didn't see any Red fighter on the module timeline thread. True, Blue has only 1 fighter atm, BUT that one plane dominates all of the Red planes through it's superior avionics and missiles. I don't think anyone serious would dispute that AMRAAM has no equal opponent on the Red side.

 

2 of those planes still have SFM, only 1 has PFM. Then again, that PFM is so bad the plane borders on unflyable, so maybe SFM is a blessing in disguise. 1 of these planes still has 2D cockpit, no 6dof (witch to land on short runways) and a simple exterior model (hopefully to change with 1.5). None of the 3 has clickable cockpit or high fidelity. All of these planes have systems from the 80's. And none can go equally against the Eagle in a fair and equal fight.

 

Statistics and mp server experiences prove one-sidedness. The Eagle will also be joined by a large line-up of planes with high fidelity, clickable cockpits, some of them planes that make Russian defence strategists highly worried in real life.

 

Sadly the only plane that will be usable for people doing role-playing of Red pilots will be the Tomcat because it's used by one of the 3 main Red countries in real world: Iran. Don't misunderstand the "sadly" part, the plane is awesome by itself and I can only suspect politics, corruption and backroom deals are responsible for why it was phased out by the USN in favour of the Bug as it was still damn good for it's mission and superior in the fighter-part compared to the Bug. I will maybe even buy it, dunno yet. But it's still not really a Red plane.

 

In genuity regarding Red heritage it's like a BMW 316 whose owner glued the M sticker on to fool people he's got the M and not the cheapest model (and it happens more times than you think lol) or a Fiat Uno sporting the Ferrari stallion (seen those as well). :D

 

Anyway, I hope I explained my position as politely as possible given the explained situation.

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I don't see why modules should be planned to maintain a red/blue balance. This is a flightsim, not a death match. Peculiar and unique aircrafts will always be interesting, even if they don't fit in the multiplayer fragfest you see on most public MP servers. And with enough time there will be enough diversity in modules to recreate certain theatre or match airplanes by era.

 

The balance of mission should be up to the mission developer's. You can always give tactical advantages to the sides with inferior aircrafts


Edited by luckyhendrix
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The likelihood of any modern red fighter being developed is incredibly slim, given the current Russian attitude towards declassification. Our only hope might be for one of the many MiG-29M variants that toured airshows in the mid to late '90s looking for export customers but never really entered Russian service due to there being no money left.

 

mig-29smt_1.jpg

 

Though obviously many of the systems went on to be used in more modern Russian aircraft. I think it far more likely that a moderately faithful '90s Fulcrum could be made than any of the post 2000 cutting edge Sukhois that so many users seem to badly want.

 

However all this dreaming is irreverent to be honest, bring on the Viggen :joystick:

mig-29smt_1.jpghttp:


Edited by Custard

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The likelihood of any modern red fighter being developed in incredibly slim, given the current Russian attitude towards declassification. Our only hope might be for one of the many MiG-29M variants that toured airshows in the mid to late '90s looking for export customers but never really entered Russian service due to there being no money left.

 

mig-29smt_1.jpg

 

Though obviously many of the systems went on to be used in more modern Russian aircraft. I think it far more likely that a moderately faithful '90s Fulcrum could be made than any of the post 2000 cutting edge Sukhois that so many users seem to badly want.

 

However all this dreaming is irreverent to be honest, bring on the Viggen :joystick:

mig-29smt_1.jpghttp:

 

I'd be more than happy sitting in that office... Soon we will be flooded with modern western airframes... Some russian counterpart is urgently needed

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"Your eyes only see what your mind is ready to comprehend"

 

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+

 

 

 

=

 

 

099.jpg

 

 

Next LN module? Ford 5-AT-B Trimotor :D ;)

 

 

Bye

Phant

 

Yes, oh yes. Cruise speed somewhere under 100 knots. Does three radials count as new propulsion system?

Toten

 

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The likelihood of any modern red fighter being developed in incredibly slim, given the current Russian attitude towards declassification.

 

USA ended up with lots red fighters during the 1990s and early 2000's some with very new equipment (thank-you ex-soviet republics) so why would it not be a US developer that could make the most modern red fighter using this source of information. USA probably also found some modern Soviet technology buried in the sand in Iraq.

 

Want to make a modern red fighter for DCS - talk to the USAF.

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Don't forget that one of it's enemies will be one of the newest and best fighters in the world, the Eurofighter.

 

Which makes me wonder, isn't it classified? How could the developers get enough documentation for a module? Why can't a Su-35 or a MiG-35 be made then?

 

The VEAO Eurofighter is part of a contracted project for the RAF, hence they probably have unprecedented access to real data. However, Ells stated that a big part of the development process is heavily redacting parts of the module and removing classified systems. Part of the trade-off with cutting edge aircraft in something like DCS.

 

I actually prefer older aircraft because the lack of tech make them more interesting/challenging to operate. In real life, I would prefer something like the Eurofighter/F-22/Su-35S, because you are much less likely to make a lethal operator error with all of the automation. But with a sim, the challenge makes it much more fun and the risk of screwing it up keeps me interested and learning.

 

Anyway, it is probably a lot harder to make truly contemporary aircraft for DCS, but there is hope for the future since the Eurofighter will probably demand competition, even if the limitations make it less complete than say the upcoming F/A-18C.

 

-Nick

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USA ended up with lots red fighters during the 1990s and early 2000's some with very new equipment (thank-you ex-soviet republics) so why would it not be a US developer that could make the most modern red fighter using this source of information. USA probably also found some modern Soviet technology buried in the sand in Iraq.

 

Want to make a modern red fighter for DCS - talk to the USAF.

Too bad im french.


Edited by didilman
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A few points from my side:

 

- Like BlackLion has said: VEAO is also developing a Eurofighter sim for the RAF, so they have access to classified stuff, but are not allowed to bring all of it to DCS. So they have to cut some stuff and emulate it instead. But they also said, that we won't notice a difference unless we are working with Eurofighters IRL.

 

- DCS as a hardcore flight sim should not at all be about balance regarding development of aircraft and weapon systems!! That's entirely up to the mission makers! Of course it will be unfair, if you just make a mission and put every available western plane on blue side and every available eastern plane on red side. But that's kinda retarded/unrealistic anyway. Sadly it's reality on many DCS servers. I hope that'll change too more realistic missions with realistic set ups and realistic objectives when more and more aircraft become available to us.

 

- I'm not so stoked by potential developments of modern fighters for DCS, because of classification. For me DCS stands for accurate simulation of military aircraft and this can't be achieved when the systems are classified. So I'm happy with Cold War stuff :)

 

- I also would like to get more russian aircraft, simply because they're different and I like to figure out how to use them. I would be really stoked if we would get a DCS level MiG-29 :joystick:

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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So with the time period for declassification of secret information, we'll just have to stick to WW2 aircraft only?

 

And of course you will then be up against the other issue - no combat experienced pilots left to ask, or no flying examples remaining.

 

Why should redaction make the Typhoon any less worthwhile? As stated, unless you know what's been redacted, how can it be missed?

 

Face it, there are, and always will be a lot of obstacles that cannot be overcome in simulations like DCS World. Anyone who imagines otherwise is just kidding themselves.

 

All anyone can ever hope for is that we get the best possible modules given the obstacles the developers will have to overcome. If we get as close to perfection as the developer can achieve, I'll be content.

 

And as has already been said, balance is the remit of the mission designer.

 

I'd like to see more soviet block aircraft, I'd like to see more aircraft from all eras. As long as they are made to the same standard as the MiG-21Bis, bring it on, I'm already in the queue to buy it!

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So with the time period for declassification of secret information, we'll just have to stick to WW2 aircraft only?

 

And of course you will then be up against the other issue - no combat experienced pilots left to ask, or no flying examples remaining.

 

Why should redaction make the Typhoon any less worthwhile? As stated, unless you know what's been redacted, how can it be missed?

 

Face it, there are, and always will be a lot of obstacles that cannot be overcome in simulations like DCS World. Anyone who imagines otherwise is just kidding themselves.

 

All anyone can ever hope for is that we get the best possible modules given the obstacles the developers will have to overcome. If we get as close to perfection as the developer can achieve, I'll be content.

 

And as has already been said, balance is the remit of the mission designer.

 

I'd like to see more soviet block aircraft, I'd like to see more aircraft from all eras. As long as they are made to the same standard as the MiG-21Bis, bring it on, I'm already in the queue to buy it!

 

Why WW2? Most Cold War aircrafts are also unclassified today.

 

About the importance of accurate simulation: I guess we have different opinions here, but that's fine :)

For me an aircraft in DCS has to be as accurate as it can get within the framework of DCS. Classification prevents the devs from doing so, so I would rather not have such an aircraft at all, since it would be build upon second guessing how the systems work. I just don't like that, but I can understand if you don't see it that way and rather have an aircraft as close as possible to reality than not having it at all :)


Edited by QuiGon

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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I'm not very familiar with the plane, but what is so good about MiG-23 that quite a few people want it? From the little I know it's old and not really competitive nowadays.

 

If being competitive on the modern battlefield is all you care about, then yes, it's not "good" in that sense. But there are plenty of people here who consider playing out historic scenarios just as if not more fun than dogfighting in 4/5 generation fighters. Or just like to be the underdog. Or find the outmoded, clunky avionics of the 50-70s fun...

 

As for the new Western aircraft upsetting the balance of MP (or rather free-for-all team deathmatch games - anyone doing realistic scenarios is hardly affected by it)... as much as I would love more Eastern tech in the game, I don't think any of the new Western planes save for the Eurofighter will be such a big problem. They match the current Russian fighters quite nicely, both in terms of role and capability.

 

MiG-21bis : F-5E

MiG-29A : Mirage-2000C

MiG-29C : F/A-18C

Su-33 : F-14A/B

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Only the Russian Mig 21 is fully modelled in that list whereas the European and American will be fully modelled soon :(

 

We need more fully modelled Russian aircraft :)

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Project IX Cockpit

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Why WW2? Most Cold War aircrafts are also unclassified today.

 

 

I said that simply because there is a 60 year moratorium on secret documents in the UK, and therefore there is no reason to believe that more recent classified material will become available any sooner.

 

How exactly do you know if there are any cold war secrets remaining or not? Therefore, how do you know if there are any aspects to any aircraft less than 60 years old that have been omitted or not? To my mind ignorance is bliss. We can only work with the information available to the general public, without the full picture, how can we judge anything?

 

That is why I said WW2. Anything later may be subject to secret data which simply isn't in the public domain, and even some stuff dating back as far as WW2 will not be declassified because it remains sensitive - for example, in Bletchley park, where Enigma was broken, they also carried out in depth analysis of radio traffic networks. Some of the methods used are equally applicable today, and still have no chance of reaching the public domain without illegal leaks. What makes you think there are not also highly sensitive matters surrounding aircraft design or weaponry from that era? Because if there are, it does have a huge impact on your idea of a simulation doesn't it. And if there is, how would you ever know?


Edited by NeilWillis
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I said that simply because there is a 60 year moratorium on secret documents in the UK, and therefore there is no reason to believe that more recent classified material will become available any sooner.

 

How exactly do you know if there are any cold war secrets remaining or not? Therefore, how do you know if there are any aspects to any aircraft less than 60 years old that have been omitted or not? To my mind ignorance is bliss. We can only work with the information available to the general public, without the full picture, how can we judge anything?

 

That is why I said WW2. Anything later may be subject to secret data which simply isn't in the public domain, and even some stuff dating back as far as WW2 will not be declassified because it remains sensitive - for example, in Bletchley park, where Enigma was broken, they also carried out in depth analysis of radio traffic networks. Some of the methods used are equally applicable today, and still have no chance of reaching the public domain without illegal leaks. What makes you think there are not also highly sensitive matters surrounding aircraft design or weaponry from that era? Because if there are, it does have a huge impact on your idea of a simulation doesn't it. And if there is, how would you ever know?

 

You can have a good guess based on released manuals and whatnot. For example, the F4E has all the manuals available freely and same for the SR71- except the SR71 has the top speed redacted while the F4E has all the performance charts.

 

So yeah, it's pretty easy to get an idea of what is and isn't still classified if you take an all sources approach (as you should).

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Eurofighter looks just like a Mig 1.44. I almost consider it a Russian aircraft. :smilewink:

 

Apart from the fact they both have canards and two engines, I just don't see it. I'm a fan of Russian aircraft, The modern Sukhoi's are particularly attractive imo. But in this case, the Eurofighter is a much nicer looking aircraft, the twin seaters especially. I'm sure plenty of people in the East wish it were a Russian aircraft though..

 

 

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