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Making DCS more accessible to new players.


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Perhaps you didn't understood. I meant for each controllers.

For every type on the market? That’s a bit much. Besides this really isn’t so difficult. Map your buttons to these commands and you’re good to go. Only takes a few minutes.

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For every type on the market? That’s a bit much. Besides this really isn’t so difficult. Map your buttons to these commands and you’re good to go. Only takes a few minutes.

 

You don't read, do you.

few popular controllers

 

Perhaps the ones listed in the Inputs and Outputs section of this forum? And they already have dev's and beta testers who has most of the popular controllers and have profiles. It's matter of just packaging into the game.

 

And as I said... again. It doesn't take a few minutes for new player who doesn't even know what commands exist in the first place. That's what this thread was for. New players.

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Yes, I'm curious how you spent "hours" mapping HOTAS controls.

 

Sign... as I said... again. You first need to know what controls are used often to go on your HOTAS. How does a new player know what CMS forward does and if it's used often? Or if it's more important than TMS forward? Which means going through the tutorials for hours to know which buttons should go on their HOTAS. And then repeat for other planes. Didn't I already say all this on my first post?

 

I "OBVIOUSLY" didn't mean simply assigning the mapping takes "hours".

 

Still need me to explain further?


Edited by Taz1004
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I feel the pain in this. Since I do a TARGET profile for each module I have, I too need to go through the tutorials to determine how best to map things for the Cougar and Warthog. It is an iterative process, and requires patience that may cause some newcomers to give up prematurely. We don't need to be saying "good riddance to lazy people," but rather they need to be hooked so that they will then pursue all that DCS has to offer.

 

While there is already a default lua file for controllers that are not specifically recognized, adding a few more lua files for controllers like the Xbox or PS4 controller (which also apply to the Xbox/PS4 HOTAS systems like the TM T-Flight) or the Logitech Wingman 3D would be a nice touch for newcomers who will need to dip their toes into the proverbial water. Solutions on the controller page such as a GUI button that provides a bitmap of the controller with button assignments, or links to YouTube videos showing the default layout for certain controllers would help to get people engaged, and I don't think either option would require extraordinary effort (the videos could even be community based). The important thing would be to have this within the GUI.

 

That said, I don't believe a complete redesign of the control interface is warranted. The spreadsheet layout is flexible and logical (once you realize that each column is an independent lua file), and I wouldn't trade it for anything. What is warranted is a way to hook newcomers and reduce the intimidation factor so that they can at least see what the default controls mean, then customize later should they decide to stick with it.

 

My hope is that ED will tweak the controller interface with MAC, then retrofit DCS with similar features later. So long as the spreadsheet remains an option, I am OK with this.

 

EDIT: one thing that could be done right now is adding certain buttons to a category called -IMPORTANT BINDINGS (with the hypen to make sure that the category shows at the top). I realize that many modules have a HOTAS or Joystick/Throttle category, but that's only obvious to people who have been playing DCS for a while.


Edited by Home Fries
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How does a new player know what CMS forward does and if it's used often?

You don’t have to know what it does yet, just map it. It’s obviously used often because it’s on the HOTAS. There’s a section of the controls menu called “HOTAS” where all those commands are.

Then do the tutorial missions and figure it out. That’s literally the first thing I did when I was new to DCS. It’s really quite simple.

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You don’t have to know what it does yet, just map it. It’s obviously used often because it’s on the HOTAS. There’s a section of the controls menu called “HOTAS” where all those commands are.

Then do the tutorial missions and figure it out. That’s literally the first thing I did when I was new to DCS. It’s really quite simple.

 

So look up real A10C control stick and map everything that's on there to your controllers? How is that making DCS more accessible to new players? :lol:

I'm pretty sure entry level HOTAS don't even have enough buttons to map all the real HOTAS functions. Not to mention not leaving room for other important "IN GAME" features to map to your HOTAS like view controls.

 

Now compare that to ED including profile of X52 from one of their beta testers. This beta tester obviously mapped all the important In Game functions to his controller. Which of the two do you think would make DCS more accessible to new players?

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I feel the pain in this. Since I do a TARGET profile for each module I have, I too need to go through the tutorials to determine how best to map things for the Cougar and Warthog. It is an iterative process, and requires patience that may cause some newcomers to give up prematurely. We don't need to be saying "good riddance to lazy people," but rather they need to be hooked so that they will then pursue all that DCS has to offer.

 

While there is already a default lua file for controllers that are not specifically recognized, adding a few more lua files for controllers like the Xbox or PS4 controller (which also apply to the Xbox/PS4 HOTAS systems like the TM T-Flight) or the Logitech Wingman 3D would be a nice touch for newcomers who will need to dip their toes into the proverbial water. Solutions on the controller page such as a GUI button that provides a bitmap of the controller with button assignments, or links to YouTube videos showing the default layout for certain controllers would help to get people engaged, and I don't think either option would require extraordinary effort (the videos could even be community based). The important thing would be to have this within the GUI.

 

That said, I don't believe a complete redesign of the control interface is warranted. The spreadsheet layout is flexible and logical (once you realize that each column is an independent lua file), and I wouldn't trade it for anything. What is warranted is a way to hook newcomers and reduce the intimidation factor so that they can at least see what the default controls mean, then customize later should they decide to stick with it.

 

My hope is that ED will tweak the controller interface with MAC, then retrofit DCS with similar features later. So long as the spreadsheet remains an option, I am OK with this.

 

EDIT: one thing that could be done right now is adding certain buttons to a category called -IMPORTANT BINDINGS (with the hypen to make sure that the category shows at the top). I realize that many modules have a HOTAS or Joystick/Throttle category, but that's only obvious to people who have been playing DCS for a while.

 

Exactly. People seem to forget what it was like being new player. They don't think from their perspective. "Oh, just map them yourselves, it's easy..." It's easy because you know what you need to map!!!

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I'm pretty sure entry level HOTAS don't even have enough buttons to map all the real HOTAS functions. Not to mention not leaving room for other important "IN GAME" features to map to your HOTAS like view controls.

I’m sure they do actually. Most of them I see look like they have enough controls. It depends on the module. One thing DCS certainly requires is head tracking or VR though. Your HOTAS controls will be full with actual controls.

 

Mapping controls is really the easiest part of DCS. Why are people in such a rush to do this when learning one of these modules will take several weeks? This isn’t an Xbox game where you grab a controller and go.


Edited by SharpeXB

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So look up real A10C control stick and map everything that's on there to your controllers? How is that making DCS more accessible to new players? :lol:

 

But what ELSE should you do? This is a game, but a simulator game. It simulates real life. Just look up the RL HOTAS of any given plane, which takes roughly 30 seconds of google-fu, replicate that on your HOTAS, done.

 

If anyone isn't willing to do THAT LITTLE, I don't know if this is the right game, tbh.

 

That said: T.16000M, Warthog and most other controllers DO have a default keybinding, don't they? Using VKB for a long time now, can't quite remember. Not that it mattered, because I just bound RL controls to my old X56.


Edited by Shimmergloom667

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So look up real A10C control stick and map everything that's on there to your controllers? How is that making DCS more accessible to new players? :lol:

I'm pretty sure entry level HOTAS don't even have enough buttons to map all the real HOTAS functions. Not to mention not leaving room for other important "IN GAME" features to map to your HOTAS like view controls.

 

Now compare that to ED including profile of X52 from one of their beta testers. This beta tester obviously mapped all the important In Game functions to his controller. Which of the two do you think would make DCS more accessible to new players?

 

Where two players may have the same stick with limited buttons, one may have a throttle with more buttons than the other. This might force one person to use modifiers, where the other could use extra buttons on the throttle. You can't account for every scenario.

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But what ELSE should you do? This is a game, but a simulator game. It simulates real life. Just look up the RL HOTAS of any given plane, which takes roughly 30 seconds of google-fu, replicate that on your HOTAS, done.

 

If anyone isn't willing to do THAT LITTLE, I don't know if this is the right game, tbh.

 

That said: T.16000M, Warthog and most other controllers DO have a default keybinding, don't they? Using VKB for a long time now, can't quite remember. Not that it mattered, because I just bound RL controls to my old X56.

 

People just don't get the point do they. Yea, that's not that hard. But is it harder for ED to include already existing profiles as default? And would it benefit new players?

Why do they even have default graphic settings? It only takes couple minutes to setup your own?

 

Where two players may have the same stick with limited buttons, one may have a throttle with more buttons than the other. This might force one person to use modifiers, where the other could use extra buttons on the throttle. You can't account for every scenario.

 

I was talking about default stock configurations. Not special setups.

 

Most driving sims DO have default mapping for most stock controllers. Is including already existing profiles that difficult for ED to do? Is ED that "lazy"?

Why do they have default mapping for expensive HOTAS like Warthog and not for entry level controllers? Is it because experienced players are lazier?

ED putting up this game on Steam is a sign they're trying to market to broader more "generic" player base. And this thread is about appealing more to THEM.

 

ED's own words on Steam.

"...also to offer a more relaxed gameplay to suit the user and his particular level of experience and training. The ambition is to hand hold users from novice pilot all the way to the most advanced..."

 

Getting tired of repeating same thing over and over. Done with this thread.


Edited by Taz1004
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I don't believe even the Microsoft Flight Simulator series provides default profiles for popular joysticks. I believe it's the same standard as DCS (pitch, roll, POV, but they bind brakes to the trigger).

 

I'll admit I downloaded a user posted profile for my joystick for my first module (it didn't work, but luckily it included a diagram so I could reproduce it using the Controls page). That was for the A-10C.

 

I personally don't think it made a stinking difference if I had used a ready made profile. The binding part takes all of 5 minutes...call it 15 as I was new. It took 6 months to figure out all the A-10 HOTAS controls. What's a new user going to do with a *5 direction* CMS switch if he doesn't even know what CMS stands for, let alone how to use it, or why to use it?

Instead of binding that switch when he gets to it, he has to instead look up his control bindings to find where it was again (as he's forgotten about it from never using it). Big difference there...

 

Lets talk about perceptions, and how many of you in fact work to make DCS less accessible to new users:

 

Mapping controls took hours

I "OBVIOUSLY" didn't mean simply assigning the mapping takes "hours"

You think a new user can tell the difference here? Mapping controllers is a menial task. You've characterized this task as taking literally HOURS for new users. They may have the perception that they have to spend hours researching and basically programming their computer before they even fly their aircraft. They don't know.. they have to go off what users like you tell them.

 

Compare that characterization to this example:

Meanwhile, enjoying the P-47 immensely.

 

Mapped to my TM HOTAS...

Took me about 4 hours of testing, and reading the manual. Another 4 hours of watching Greg's You Tube series to understand technical errata, and Chucks Guide (manual)... 8 hours, over about a week off and on of putzing around.

Likely the same events happened here. What does a new user see from this characterization? The user spent "hours" learning and flying (testing) their aircraft, and those hours did include control bindings.

 

Which process do you think sounds more appealing to anyone?

 

Back to default HOTAS bindings. I eventually bought the acclaimed Warthog HOTAS. I plugged it in and it was already set up nicely for the A-10C?

Wanna know how I know this? Because the Grim Reapers told me it worked that way?

No.

 

The first thing I did was go into the control screen and actually verify every switch and axis was working properly, and correctly bound (I had to fix the POV/Trim binding).

Having a profile was a nice touch, but it saved me all of 2 minutes in the control screen.

 

It's a similar problem as OP had. "I want to learn how to play DCS, but I don't want to read it's documentation."

Well he probably doesn't want to read the documentation because you all keep telling him how many pages it has instead of trying to explain that it will answer many of his questions.

 

If he'd have read the book he would at least know how the engines are started, and which controls were used to test different systems, and how those tests work.

He'd be able to take that knowledge and look at his F-14 start and go "I need this, but I don't need that."

 

But no, the solution is to water this down for people. Not point them to the tools which will help them succeed.

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We all want DCS to be accessible to new players, but there’s no helping lazy or unmotivated ones.

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Lets talk about perceptions, and how many of you in fact work to make DCS less accessible to new users:

 

. . .

 

Compare that characterization to this example:

 

Originally Posted by SmirkingGerbil viewpost.gif

Meanwhile, enjoying the P-47 immensely.

 

Mapped to my TM HOTAS...

Took me about 4 hours of testing, and reading the manual. Another 4 hours of watching Greg's You Tube series to understand technical errata, and Chucks Guide (manual)... 8 hours, over about a week off and on of putzing around.

 

 

Random, thanks for the reference.

 

To add to it, those 8 hours included a lot of flying with the default bindings. Most of the mapping done was to map Pitch, Boost, Cowling settings, Bomb drop toggle switches, Inter-Cooler, Oil Cooler, Dive Flaps and other often used controls. Even then it was me moving them around to make them more ergonomic. So plenty of flying in those 8 hours (= fun!) and experimenting with different HOTAS mappings to create an environment where I didn't touch the keyboard or use the mouse cursor to click a control.

 

I think the only thing I use the keyboard for is landing gear, and the radio buttons A - D.

 

The short of it being, it wasn't all drudgery and boring. Plenty of flying in there while I optimized bindings to my liking.

 

Just want new users to understand I flew the P-47 out of the box, no binding changes other than I had to delete some dual mappings between the Thrustmaster Pedals and the Stick, which admittedly is kind of odd, not sure if that is a thing with other input devices.

 

A couple visits to the control bindings and you figure it out pretty quick, and using the SEARCH function, which is a real boon in finding mappings and changing them. DCS has a lot of commonality with other sims, so control bindings shouldn't really be that tough, and even if you do have issues, just ask!

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How about the hardon some server admins have for doing full alignments, but without sufficient warning that the server is going to reset in less than 10 minutes? That pushes away experienced pilots, let alone beginners. The most experienced military pilot I know won't fly on a server with cold starts...:doh:

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I just installed that “new flight sim” today

Try assigning controls in that! DCS is magnificent by comparison :lol:

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I just installed that “new flight sim” today

Try assigning controls in that! DCS is magnificent by comparison :lol:

You are not wrong :)

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Late to the discussion, but the main thing I have problems with are checklists, start-up, shut-down, different buttons in the cockpit and what they do, radio, comms, radar, weapon selection, etc. etc. etc.

 

One great advantage of clickable cockpits is that you can use them without binding anything. I believe that new players would really, and I mean really appreciate having some kind of nice clear and concise checklist guide (maybe even with some pretty pictures) in the kneeboard for every aircraft. Something along the line's of Chuck's guide but maybe even more simplified and accessible within the cockpit so they can simply active-pause the sim (or not if theyre on autopilot or sitting on the ground) and find the necessary steps to engage whatever system it is they want.

 

Even as an experienced DCS player, with the many breaks I take from DCS I sure as hell would appreciate something like that.


Edited by OnlyforDCS

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