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Any further progress to be expected


bkthunder

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nothing happen

 

Not nothing. Major radar bug was reported 1.5.6 and resolved 1.5.8. It's just very slow.

 

I think after texture compatibility update the priority updates would be ASP sight unit and SAU autopilot in that order. Nearly everything else doesn't appreciably interrupt the mission function of the airplane. Quality modeling of the RSBN/PRMG/ARK systems to the level of the L-39 would be nice. Sorting out the external lighting would also be good. Of course the AI flight members need similar performance to the player's flight model and more control over them is warranted.

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As the most modern full-fidelity Soviet aircraft in DCS (and this seems to be true for the foreseeable future) I would have hoped more attention would have been paid to this module. I got it, Leatherneck split and this interupted work schedules. However, if M3 chose to keep this module in its portfolio, then it assumed responsibility for its maintenance. I hope M3 gets their act together and pushes out quality fixes for the MIG-21 soon. The grace period from the split is over.

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Well the good thing is once the Mig-19 comes out, I can delete this module.

A MiG-19 is nowhere close to a MiG-21!

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As the most modern full-fidelity Soviet aircraft in DCS (and this seems to be true for the foreseeable future) I would have hoped more attention would have been paid to this module. I got it, Leatherneck split and this interupted work schedules. However, if M3 chose to keep this module in its portfolio, then it assumed responsibility for its maintenance. I hope M3 gets their act together and pushes out quality fixes for the MIG-21 soon. The grace period from the split is over.

 

Not only that but on the Cold war server vs the Tiger, you regularly see over 20 players flying the Mig. That has to make it one of the most popular MP modules at the moment.

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Not only that but on the Cold war server vs the Tiger, you regularly see over 20 players flying the Mig. That has to make it one of the most popular MP modules at the moment.

 

And that's saying something, considering blue has many more options.

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Well the good thing is once the Mig-19 comes out, I can delete this module.

 

better: buy it a second time, and support them and our lovely niche game. have you ever thought about it that is at the end about earning some money to survive? they try to live their passion and love and share it with us. would you go this risk making it your business and maybe loosing a lot of money? nobody else will give you a 21 in no other simulator and for all the future i guess. . .

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SVTONY, you're presenting your opinion as a fact. You have every right to enjoy the module, and I hope you do.

 

But please respect the opinion of others, that had bought a full-fidelity sim for a lot of money and feel screwed by what they currently have.

Myself and a lot of other users would've never bought the MiG-21 if they knew that this would be the current and final state,well over 3 and a half years after beta release!

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2.5 is a turn point for DCS. From now on a lot of things are more clear from development point of view. This does not mean is final... DCS is a living beast and it transforms itself in time.

 

Most of developers, if not all 3rd parties were waiting for some final tools and procedures to finalize their work. I think that starting from now they will need roughly 1 year to conclude their modules.

 

DCS as it is right now offers enough variety to keep us busy for this year. Also I think that is important to stop bullying the devs and give them some credit for their work and dedication.

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i did a small list on this a while back, although it is by no means extensive (for example, I forgot mentioning the weird SPO behavior)

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3076819&postcount=77

 

For the extensive list, scrolling through the posted issues in the Leatherneck bug tracker should be sufficient: https://leatherneck-sim.mantishub.io , although some are more important than others

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I have the Mig 21 since about 3 years and flew about 100 hours (must look in my logbook and will with an edit give the exact data) and enjoyed her a lot: trained to navigate and RTB in bad weather conditions.

Now I payed maybe Eur 40,-- for her, so I think that the cost was about Eur 0,40 / hour: surely nothing to complain :)

 

Now I understand, that there are still some issues and I read that the devs are working on it.

But then that complaining of these customers who payed some money (sure not that much) and are going to bash the devs and that bashing get worse all the time: I HATE IT!

Must be very demotivating for the devs!

 

To the devs: I thank you for developing the Mig 21: she is a fantastic aircraft and I have enjoyed her a lot and hope to do that some more in the future :)

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Not only that but on the Cold war server vs the Tiger, you regularly see over 20 players flying the Mig. That has to make it one of the most popular MP modules at the moment.

 

Popular for a reason. People, including myself are happy with the module.

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I have the Mig 21 since about 3 years and flew about 100 hours (must look in my logbook and will with an edit give the exact data) and enjoyed her a lot: trained to navigate and RTB in bad weather conditions.

Now I payed maybe Eur 40,-- for her, so I think that the cost was about Eur 0,40 / hour: surely nothing to complain smile.gif

 

Now I understand, that there are still some issues and I read that the devs are working on it.

But then that complaining of these customers who payed some money (sure not that much) and are going to bash the devs and that bashing get worse all the time: I HATE IT!

Must be very demotivating for the devs!

 

To the devs: I thank you for developing the Mig 21: she is a fantastic aircraft and I have enjoyed her a lot and hope to do that some more in the future smile.gif

Well said thumbup.gif

Everyone can find out by going into multi-player server browser that cold war, Mig-21 and F-5 server is constantly in top 5 if not 3 of most most populated servers (after 104th server, BF and free flight, aerobatics server). It is like this since a long time, even before Viggen and Harrier had been added. Surelly MiG-21 gained it's popularity thanks to being utterly broken and rotten with bugs module :doh:

 

Some people are really exaggerating. There really should be a way on the forum to red flag statements like this :

Well the good thing is once the Mig-19 comes out, I can delete this module.

Such statements are clearly giving impression to stay away from the module. It's easy to write crap on the forum but think that this will drive some potentiall customer away from purchassing the module - directly affecting developpers revenues and maybe even the stability.

Guess what: go to to bug, to do list for some other modules - assuming that they are even pulicly available to begin with. Maybe that'll be a bucket of cold water that will bring you back to the reality :doh:

 

MiG-21 is a great module, absolutelly funcional and usable. It's also one of the most fun to fly thumbsup.gif. Yes, there are some bugs but none are show-stoppers. Also comparing to other DCS modules there is nothing that would make MiG-21 particullary outsanding from the average in a negative way. Countrary, considering average state of modules in DCS MiG-21 is one of the more complete ones.

 

I think a lot of people are giving M3 a hard time right now due to the announcement of the CE. But that's purelly not fair :furious:

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I support the game, it's actually a very expensive game. But not people who sell me broken stuff.

 

And at the end of the day none of this makes sense. Stuff like giving the Mig-21 a set of individual sound files could take no longer than a day.

 

The MiG-21 is hardly "broken" though.

 

You can start the bird up, take off, navigate with the working on board equipment, fire the working ordinance and land with working landing gear and slow down with a working parachute.

 

The only thing I can think of that's truly broken is the cockpit lighting in 2.5

 

And 2.5 is still in beta. The lighting works fine in what is still the release version.

 

Everything else is just stuff that can be improved upon an doesn't work exactly the same as in the real aircraft. I do look forward to the module being improved of course.

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Stuff like giving the Mig-21 a set of individual sound files could take no longer than a day.

 

Even if it needed it (I think current sound are great), recording, mixing and integrating plane sound would take WAY more than a day.

 

Fixes have been done, are being done and will be done in the future, it just can't be instantaneous...

 

Edit: Regarding prices, I don't agree. If you look at what is available in other flight sim, DCS is rather cheap.

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I think a lot of people are giving M3 a hard time right now due to the announcement of the CE. But that's purelly not fair :furious:

 

More likely it's because it has been 3,5 years in public beta with no clear end in sight. And we are on the third company (after beczl and Leatherneck). Personally I don't think that things will improve much in the future, especially seeing the direction M3 is going.

 

MiG-21 is not utterly broken, but there are still plenty of inaccuracies if you care to read the real manuals, plus some regression bugs that take ages to fix. Of course you don't need 100% realism to just have fun on a Mig-21 vs F-5 server.

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Popular for a reason. People, including myself are happy with the module.

It depends on what your expectations are, and how much you know about the real aircraft.

I enjoyed the MiG-21 myself, as I did enjoy the Mirage before the flight model broke around May last year. But I have no experience whatsoever with the real MiG nor Mirage, and "enjoyment" is very subjective.

Of course this forum - as many others - have a lot of negatitivity, complaining and what not, but also very informative posts from people who really know what they are talking about. And the latter makes it worthwhile - at least for me - to stay updated on this forum.

 

The more you learn about how the real aircraft is different from the way it is modelled in a sim that is all about realism, the less happy you feel with it.

I completely understand the criticism on the SPO-10, in the same way I finally want a properly working PCI for the Mirage (among the other things that are still not implemented).

 

But there are some people here who constantly defend the devellopers despite genuine criticism, and give negative reputation to those people who dare to speak up, and that winds me up...

Of course we are all happy with aircraft which are very interesting in real life to find their way into a simulator, and thank the devellopers for that, but that also means they have the responsability to deliver.

If your boss at work hired you for a very specific job and you don't deliver according to the wishes of the customer, there will be consequences as well.

 

Another example: if you go to a restaurant and ask for your steak to be medium-rare, and get well-done, you won't be happy, no matter how many people like eating their steak well-done...

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More likely it's because it has been 3,5 years in public beta with no clear end in sight. And we are on the third company (after beczl and Leatherneck). Personally I don't think that things will improve much in the future, especially seeing the direction M3 is going.

It's hard to blame anyone that the module had been developped over the time by three different teams. Quite contrary, it's usually an indication that in result, in the background the software is so to say, difficult to maintain. Which basically means fixes and updates take a lot of effort. Remember that those are also bearly a companies. The reality seems more a group of people doing module development as a second job.

I wonder how many people that complain so much do actually have any software development experience. Maybe then they would understand how "easy" piece of a bread it is and that the things they assume should take a day in reality can take a week or a month to do.

 

MiG-21 is not utterly broken, but there are still plenty of inaccuracies if you care to read the real manuals, plus some regression bugs that take ages to fix. Of course you don't need 100% realism to just have fun on a Mig-21 vs F-5 server.

You're correct that there are inacuracies but from the way you describe the problems "no need of 100% realism to have fun" some could draw a conclusion that MiG-21 is an arcade module - which simply is not true.

We need to remember that it's a simulator and while some strive for 100% adequate representation, not evertyghing is possible or doable with a rational amount of investment. There will always be things that are workarounds and which purists will criticise. Finally, there might have been a mistake during an early evaluation in understanding how the things work in reality. It's normal to have an issue with the "requirements". What I think people also forget and stopped to appreciate is that just a few years back a lock-on, flaming clifs was the most advanced and realistic combat simulator available to the public.

I would say that MiG-21 is in a state more than good enough to be called a realistic simulation. Especially that those few things not right are mostly not noticable if you don't really go into the real manual (which by the way also quite often doesn't give an ultimate answer and leaves a room for interpretation).

What I'm trying to say is that people should stop complaining so much. I see less and less people participating in a constructive in depth criticism - instead there are just more and more general, negative and quite often false statments.


Edited by firmek

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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It depends on what your expectations are, and how much you know about the real aircraft.

I enjoyed the MiG-21 myself, as I did enjoy the Mirage before the flight model broke around May last year. But I have no experience whatsoever with the real MiG nor Mirage, and "enjoyment" is very subjective.

Of course this forum - as many others - have a lot of negatitivity, complaining and what not, but also very informative posts from people who really know what they are talking about. And the latter makes it worthwhile - at least for me - to stay updated on this forum.

 

The more you learn about how the real aircraft is different from the way it is modelled in a sim that is all about realism, the less happy you feel with it.

I completely understand the criticism on the SPO-10, in the same way I finally want a properly working PCI for the Mirage (among the other things that are still not implemented).

 

But there are some people here who constantly defend the devellopers despite genuine criticism, and give negative reputation to those people who dare to speak up, and that winds me up...

Of course we are all happy with aircraft which are very interesting in real life to find their way into a simulator, and thank the devellopers for that, but that also means they have the responsability to deliver.

If your boss at work hired you for a very specific job and you don't deliver according to the wishes of the customer, there will be consequences as well.

 

Another example: if you go to a restaurant and ask for your steak to be medium-rare, and get well-done, you won't be happy, no matter how many people like eating their steak well-done...

/\/\/\ This.

 

On the SPO-10 part, I sincerely hope that it will get better! ED has stated that they are developing a thev and better RWR system for the F/A-18C - which actually simulates it's function. I surely think they will provide it to 3rd party devs, making accurate simulation of such a system much more doable.


Edited by asla36

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It's hard to blame anyone that the module had been developped over the time by three different teams. Quite contrary, it's usually an indication that in result, in the background the software is so to say, difficult to maintain. Which basically means fixes and updates take a lot of effort. Remember that those are also bearly a companies. The reality seems more a group of people doing module development as a second job.

I wonder how many people that complain so much do actually have any software development experience. Maybe then they would understand how "easy" piece of a bread it is and that the things they assume should take a day in reality can take a week or a month to do.

 

Usually, such turbulent history means that there is someone to blame :) Anyway, that's why I wrote that I don't expect much improvements in the future, not to start an argument.

Besides I'm a software developer myself with experience in a similar field, so I have a pretty good idea how much time this stuff takes. It's not 3+ years just to get out of beta.

 

Regarding constructive criticism, it's there, in the form of bug reports and discussions. And then there's silence from the devs and nothing happens for months or even years....


Edited by some1

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It's a matter of what you advertise vs. what you actually sell.

 

If it said "great looking 3D model with approximate rendition of the FM and systems", then I would have probably skipped buying it OR I would have bought it knowing the limitations, as I did with FC3.

 

But it was (and is) advertised as a highly realistic simulation, which is not, and that's after 3+ years.

The fact that it is enjoyable as it is (for me it's not, but everyone has different tastes/priorities), is irrelevant.

The relvant part is: they put a price tag on a box with a product description. The product doesn't match the description.

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