My thoughts after ~40 hours logged in the Huey

I've been playing this game a couple of weeks now, and played through the UN campaign as well as the Argo campaign. I'm no heli pilot, but I've had my amount of RC helis and other simulators in the past. I really love this game, and it's a blast to fly around with the Huey. :)

Here's a list of things I wish could be improved:

-When I fly straight at 90kts with no wind, I must press the left rudder a fairly amount. I'm no expert, but shouldn't this hi fidelity sim solve this kind of aerodynamics?

-No needle split (engine vs rotor rpm) when I'm on the ground and reduce throttle to minimum, or do auto rotation practice from air. It's like there was no freewheel between the engine and the rotor blades. I was able to get a needle split when I stopped the engine mid air by cutting off the fuel and did an auto rotation towards the ground though. But I think it should act more or less the same for the latter situations.

-Is the search light and landing light so poor in the real chopper? Night missions are horrible :D

Thats all the rant for now.

Have a good one and keep up the good work!

-Is the search light and landing light so poor in the real chopper? Night missions are horrible :D

That's been an issue with at the core of DCS for a long time. Lighting should improve with updated core elements of DCS eventually...

solve this kind of aerodynamics?

When I last flew her, I remember my pedals were at (or near) neutral at cruise speed. When did you calibrate your rudder pedals last?

Pedals should be near neutral generally at cruise speed and level flight, but like a lot of things, "it depends." Needing extra left pedal means there's torque being generated that needs to be counteracted. Maybe you're heavy and need additional collective to maintain the same speed. Maybe there's some kind of crosswind. It's hard for us to say what your conditions were. Either way, the Huey is very well simulated in terms of physics, so I would start by trying to understand what the Helo is telling you before implying it's poorly simulated.

Pedals should be near neutral generally at cruise speed and level flight, but like a lot of things, "it depends." Needing extra left pedal means there's torque being generated that needs to be counteracted. Maybe you're heavy and need additional collective to maintain the same speed. Maybe there's some kind of crosswind. It's hard for us to say what your conditions were. Either way, the Huey is very well simulated in terms of physics, so I would start by trying to understand what the Helo is telling you before implying it's poorly simulated.

Like I said, I flew in no wind what so ever. In a clean chopper with aprox 30% fuel. I just tested this in a new mission. When I hit 90kts, I turned on the (non real) autopilot, just to make sure the airframe was flying nice and steady. Then you'll see that the autopilot adds left rudder. Just try for yourself.

I believe in real life, like you just said, there should be no need to apply left rudder to counter the torque when you fly in cruise speed.

Are you flying balanced? As in the ball is in the middle? That could explain it..

HTH

Are you flying balanced? As in the ball is in the middle? That could explain it..

 

HTH

Yep, just like how the autopilot does. At cruise speed with no wind with the "autopilot" you'll see the ball in the middle with left rudder pushed.

Rudder is always required when flying at pretty much any speed in a chopper. The main rotor torque you have to counter using the tail rotor is actually increasing as you are going faster (because you need more collective at faster speeds hence more torque), and as such you will have to push even harder on the rudder. The vertical surfaces on the tail are just here to somewhat reduce the effort on the rudder, but they will almost never cancel it. That is why chopper rudders are not centered, and if you want to be serious in flying choppers in dcs, you actually should remove the centering mechanism on your rudder.

Choppers are different than fixed wings. They are an order of magnitude more complex to fly. This is true irl, this is true in dcs. Everything you know for fix wing is not relevant for choppers.

Like I said, I flew in no wind what so ever. In a clean chopper with aprox 30% fuel. I just tested this in a new mission. When I hit 90kts, I turned on the (non real) autopilot, just to make sure the airframe was flying nice and steady. Then you'll see that the autopilot adds left rudder.

Perhaps test with a full fuel load - AFAIK the amount of collective/anti-torque pedal will be dependent on GTW.

Flight control measurements for a 8520 lbs, 1972 test flight* suggested

• LH pedal below ~35 kts to counter torque forces (were out of scope of the test flight)

• Center pedal @ ~35 kts as the stab and torque forces cancel

• RH pedal (+6%) at ~70 kts to counter stab forces

• Center pedal @ ~100 kts as the stab force is cancelled by the increased torque due to the increased power/collective required for the higher speed.

• Higher speeds require LH pedal as the power/collective torque increases over and above the stab force (were out of scope of the test flight).

I believe in real life, like you just said, there should be no need to apply left rudder to counter the torque when you fly in cruise speed.

That's how I understand it as well, though I'm not sure how well it's modelled in DCS (I'd have expected a little more RH pedal in the mid range).

Just try for yourself.

Ignoring Takeoff, Landings, crosswinds, turns, etc., my DCS pedal adjustments are small and always near the center, so I don't really worry which side of the center point the pedals are and accept it as a limitation of the sim.

*Flight Handling Qualities Tests UH-1H Helicopter, AD0901787

My understanding is that anti-torque pedals have no mechanical or aerodynamic centering force, thus there's no effort required to keep them in any position for extended periods of time.

My twist rudder on my stick does have a centering spring, so I use the "rudder trim" special option that allows for an unrealistic rudder trim system to compensate for the spring tension.

It's been a while since I've flown the UH-1, but I'm pretty sure I've seen "split needles" plenty of times. I've idled the engine on the ground, and done practice autorotations with the throttle at idle. Throttle is a separate control than collective.

Does the Huey's ball on the slip indicator function correctly in DCS?

I remember reading somewhere in these forums it's physics is reversed due to a bug... :(

or perhaps this is corrected now. But I want to know if it does indeed work correctly?

Listen to bad crc I’ll bet he ha more hrs in any of the rotary wing aircraft than any three non black shark den members in the same airframe. He trains helicopter pilots with others that have rl rotary experience and they try to follow us army training syllabuses within the confines of dcs something’s are just not doable either because dcs didn’t model it or there is no way to simulate it in a static sim or even a motion sim.

Rudder is always required when flying at pretty much any speed in a chopper. The main rotor torque you have to counter using the tail rotor is actually increasing as you are going faster (because you need more collective at faster speeds hence more torque), and as such you will have to push even harder on the rudder. The vertical surfaces on the tail are just here to somewhat reduce the effort on the rudder, but they will almost never cancel it. That is why chopper rudders are not centered, and if you want to be serious in flying choppers in dcs, you actually should remove the centering mechanism on your rudder.

Choppers are different than fixed wings. They are an order of magnitude more complex to fly. This is true irl, this is true in dcs. Everything you know for fix wing is not relevant for choppers.

THIS! You constantly need to use some rudder at pretty much any speed and weight if there is no fly by wire system.

There was a post/blog some years ago where the founder of Belsimtek (I believe) went to the US to fly along in a UH-1. He is a former Mi-8 pilot himself. At some point he was allowed to take the controls in the UH-1 and I remember him mentioning that he needed to add more rudder in level flight than he expected.

This guy illustrates exactly what I mentioned about the rudder torque and enginge rpm vs rotor rpm. This guy, at least, seems to know what he's talking about:

rudder in cruise flight : 6:40

engine rpm vs rotor rpm : 24:40

This guy, at least, seems to know what he's talking about:

Well I don't know how I should take that, but yes, what he is saying is that the huey should need less pedal left and less torque in cruise that it needs in hover IGE which is true and does not contradict what I already said (it doesn't say your rudder shall be neutral at cruise speed unlike what you claimed from your RC experience). I am glad this guy said "I believe" about the right pedal thing.

Anyway, looks like you all figured it out in just 40 hours. That's pretty impressive. Congrats man.

Well I don't know how I should take that, but yes, what he is saying is that the huey should need less pedal left and less torque in cruise that it needs in hover IGE which is true and does not contradict what I already said (it doesn't say your rudder shall be neutral at cruise speed unlike what you claimed from your RC experience). I am glad this guy said "I believe" about the right pedal thing.

 

Anyway, looks like you all figured it out in just 40 hours. That's pretty impressive. Congrats man.

Ah sorry! I admit I was wrong about the neutral rudder, and thanks for clarifying that part.

From the Maintenance Test Flight Manual:

IN-FLIGHT CHECKS

1. Control rigging - Check:

a. FORCE TRIM - ON

b. Increase airspeed - 90 (Nose mounted), 100 (Roof mounted) using 30 PSI torque, needle ball centered.

c. Note cyclic nearly center; force trim holds controls in position.

d. Right pedal should be 1.0 to 2.0'' forward of left.

e. The collective should not creep up or down.

f. FORCE TRIM - OFF.

- Bear

Huey needs left yaw on take off to counteract torque, and it needs a bit of right rudder during forward flight ( I don't know why). The less weight you have the more she seems to need right rudder in flight. Again, don't know why. I just fly it lol.

Dcs lighting is bad, but the huey lighting was also historically bad. There are other posts here about that light and how horrible it is in real life.

Dunno about the needle.

-Is the search light and landing light so poor in the real chopper?

I've tried the new beta version yesterday and only took a short night flight. I got the impression that the lights work now, finally! Can anyone confirm this? Also, the green tinted roof windows are more transparent now. Happy flying!

Wow! That's awesome!

Can Steam users install the beta version, or do we need to wait patiently for it be official?

Rudder is always required when flying at pretty much any speed in a chopper. The main rotor torque you have to counter using the tail rotor is actually increasing as you are going faster (because you need more collective at faster speeds hence more torque), and as such you will have to push even harder on the rudder. The vertical surfaces on the tail are just here to somewhat reduce the effort on the rudder, but they will almost never cancel it. That is why chopper rudders are not centered, and if you want to be serious in flying choppers in dcs, you actually should remove the centering mechanism on your rudder.

Choppers are different than fixed wings. They are an order of magnitude more complex to fly. This is true irl, this is true in dcs. Everything you know for fix wing is not relevant for choppers.

True that, flying a Huey is a delicate dance between the collective, the cyclic, and the torque pedals.

By the way, the Huey doesn't have an autopilot, the "autopilot" in DCS for the Huey is just to relieve to pilot when flying the distance. But by no means real, so you can't compare what that is doing to what you should be doing. :)

Wow! That's awesome!

 

Can Steam users install the beta version, or do we need to wait patiently for it be official?

I believe they can. Right click on DCS in Steam, hit Properties. Select tab Beta, there you can change it.

I'm using standalone so it can differ a bit from my description.

Can Steam users install the beta version, or do we need to wait patiently for it be official?

Yes, Open Beta is an option under "DCS World Steam Edition>Properties>Betas"

However 2.5.6.43453 doesn't launch in Steam, so Steam Beta was rolled back to 2.5.5.41962 until it's fixed (there's no point in giving users a 16.3 GB DL for a program that doesn't launch).