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We also have to have a chat about MSAA and deferred shading


muse458

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Hi all,

 

looks like it has been an exciting but mixed start for everyone on the 2.5 beta, but ED have always pushed forward with solutions and I'm sure they will solve a lot of the problems asap.

 

its always good to get a big sample size to iron out bugs..

 

But just in regards to AA .....:(

 

Every thread I'm reading thus far about 2.5 (and 2.2 for that matter) around performance discussions has at least 5 or six separate comments about how MSAA is destroying frame rates with deferred shading on, and everyones solution is just to have it a "0" or nvidia control panel work arounds (which unfortunately don't work for VR users) so its basically redundant having it (unless you have a 1080ti and then you can maybe push it to 2x or 4x)

 

This has been a problem since 2.2 came out and I guess all I am wanting to hear is that this is a priority for the team at ED and a solution is being worked on? I haven't seen anything mentioned by Wags for quite a while about this...its definitely a major problem...

 

but even if a solution is months off at least we will have a dream to look forward to.

 

Sithspawn, Bignewy it would be awesome if you could please have quick a chat to Wags and get the lowdown and confirm that something is happening with AA and report back??

 

Cheers and thanks to ED again for developing more awesome stuff for us...

 

just need me some quality AA :)

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Hi, I do have another solution that works well with my rig : lowering the Shadows quality from High to Medium allows me to use both ingame MSAA x4 and Deferred shadows. My worst fps rate is then 35 when flying low over Batumi, and max is over 100. I use nVidia panel default settings.

 

My rig is:

i5 @ 3.4GHz

16 GB RAM

GTX 980

 

6aa10909819b18171ad2c422528bf7b4.md.png


Edited by Flappie

Don't accept indie game testing requests from friends in Discord. Ever.

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I'm getting used to no MSAA...

yeah its not great, but being able to have everything else on high does kind of make up for it.

I've been having a few "man this is beautiful" moments in VR..

 

its seems way better than no MSAA in NTTR and Normandy in 2.2.

less shimmer.

really only see the jaggies on electricity pylons. and some buildings. the new thin wires make them less of an issue.

the actual landscape itself is pretty good. ie horizon merge. etc

 

and being able to see tracers in VR is quite novel :)

i could not see them in 1.5.8

which sucks when you are in a huey.

 

so all in all I'm not as annoyed as i thought i was going to be.

My Rig: AM5 7950X, 32GB DDR5 6000, M2 SSD, EVGA 1080 Superclocked, Warthog Throttle and Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Oculus Rift.

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I agree with the OP that it is strange that not more effort has been put into fixing this.

 

Deffered shading might be a nice thing, but not if You cannot use AA.

Setting AA through the Nvidia Control Panel does not work and even using Reshade SMAA with deffered shading makes the sim stutter.

 

If the terrain and especially the trees cannot look right without deffered shading, why then even make it optional ?

 

I know thi is a alpha / beta version and 2.5 is fresh from the oven, but these issues also existed in 2.2.

 

Right now the smoothest experience for me is with 2xMSAA and Deffered shading Off and the live with the ugky trees and weird greenish cockpit in the AJS37 Viggen when the radar is On.

 

The problem is that personally I don´t find the graphical finess with 2.5 is so much better than in 1.5.8 - so the performance impact we see is kind of out of the world compared from 1.5.8 Caucasus map.

Even trees are visible much longer away from You in 1.5.8 than in 2.5, even with Trees set to 100%.


Edited by fjacobsen

i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB,  1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3.

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I agree with the OP that it is strange that not more effort has been put into fixing this.

 

How can you possibly know how much effort is being put into fixing this? Yes, it is an issue, and one that ED must be well aware of as they have advised not to mix the two things.

 

To quote... "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

Rome is still a work in progress thousands of years after a wolf allegedly suckled twins Romulus and Remus. DCS World is very similar in that respect (but I am sure Wags was raised in a much less outrageous manner?).

 

We have had 2.5 in BETA form precisely 3.5 days! If it can be fixed, it will be fixed of that we can be sure. How much effort has been put into the bug isn't something anyone outside ED is privy to, so maybe you're being a little rash in you assertion?

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How can you possibly know how much effort is being put into fixing this? Yes, it is an issue, and one that ED must be well aware of as they have advised not to mix the two things.

 

To quote... "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

Rome is still a work in progress thousands of years after a wolf allegedly suckled twins Romulus and Remus. DCS World is very similar in that respect (but I am sure Wags was raised in a much less outrageous manner?).

 

We have had 2.5 in BETA form precisely 3.5 days! If it can be fixed, it will be fixed of that we can be sure. How much effort has been put into the bug isn't something anyone outside ED is privy to, so maybe you're being a little rash in you assertion?

 

It has been an isue ever since Deffred shading has been added - so not just 3.5 days.

You are right- I don´t know how much effert the devs put into fixing this, but according to the many many reports about the problems with it, I wonder why it hasn´t been fixed or just improved.

It has been told by many with great knowledge about this, that Deffred shading and MSAA working together cannot work, so why not introduce other AA methods ?

They could have added SMAA or even FXAA, so You don´t have to use 3rd party mods like Reshade.

 

For me DCS 2.5 has too major problems inorder to fully replace 1.5.8 (at least for me) and that is the isseue with DS vs MSAA and the incredible hunger for memory.

 

Maybe 8GB system RAM and 4GB Video RAM isn´t exactly what is used in today Gaming computers, but honestly I have zero problems with any of my other games / sims, including P3D V4.1, IL-2 BOX and a handfull of First person shooters and Racing sims.

 

The only excuse is that Flight sims has become a niche' and a company like ED doesn´t have the ressources other game type developers have, but still I have hoped, and stil do, that these issues will see some improvements in not so long a timeframe.

i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB,  1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3.

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This is what I'm currently using with pretty decent results, after spending the morning experimenting. I was experiencing bad FPS (18-19ish) touching down on runways and it got me to try other settings. Really liking this DSR Smoothness Zero'd out. Panning the cockpit with TrackIR seems a lot more snappy. Either that or it's all in my head. :)

 

l1UMqYr.jpg

 

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U9kQYDy.png

 

 

Ive got the same gpu but half the RAM is this worth a try for me ?

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Just take some screenshots of what your current settings are now so you can revert them if you don't like these. Can't hurt to try it right? If I remember correctly, Recommended is 16 GB and Minimum is 8 GB but I really wonder if I'm even using more than 8GB. I haven't checked. I'm also using EVGA Precision XOC x64 6.2.3 to push my card a little bit further. You have to setup a free account with them to download it. I just maxed my fan out and clicked the K button.

 

https://www.evga.com/precisionxoc/

 

 

Is it possible to do the same with afterburner as i already have that installed

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This is one of the main issues going forward for me (and my flying buddy) also. The sliding and shimmering without MSAA is really bad down low in VR. Tolerable but a large step back compared to 2.0. I used to have 4xMFAA in 2.0 with good frames....no chance in 2.5

 

I raised this issue back in 2.2 and Wags said that they are looking into it. Hopefully we can get a further update regarding this issue

Check out my 'real world'

video series

 

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Looks pretty similar. Here's the first YouTube I found on how to use it.

 

 

Good luck!

 

Seems like i got it sorted im getting 50-60 fps low over forrests in my harrier. the only problem is now i cant seem to figure out why my mcdu is black, it shows the information but there is no picture could it be the gamma ?

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Seems like i got it sorted im getting 50-60 fps low over forrests in my harrier. the only problem is now i cant seem to figure out why my mcdu is black, it shows the information but there is no picture could it be the gamma ?

 

Deferred shading being turned off in the A10C will make the MFCD screens unusable, not sure if that is what is happening to you in your Harrier or not. In conjunction with one other setting option being set in a particular way (unsure which one it is) it will make the MFCDs appear like they were in 1.5.8 / 2.2 when they were very basic versions of FLIR (BHOT/WHOT). Deferred shading in 2.5 made them function like they really should but the trade off of FPS hit / performance hit for most is crippling. Beta is beta, but this sure seems more like an alpha build to me personally. Beta is typically a game that has some broken aspects, not an entirely broken game.

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x1TB SSD drives (one solely for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, UH=1H, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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I'm also running a 1050Ti, and I'm having terrible luck. I tried similar settings to Kingsnake, with 12 different combinations of FXAA, MFAA, Nvidia's AA, and DCS's MSAA. I couldn't get above 44fps sitting on the ramp at Kobuleti without sacrificing antialiasing.

 

At one point I did get 50fps with antialiasing, but 5 minutes later, with the same settings, and the same mission, I was back down to the 40s.

 

 

For my rig, the only three things that impact performance are 1) AA, 2) Terrain Shadows, and 3) Visible Range.

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I have a question: currently i use a 1440p@60hz monitor, and with msaa 2x and deferred shading ON sometimes i experience stutter and fps drop with a gtx1070.

I tried to disable in-game MSAA at alll using, instead, FXAA from nvidia control panel.

But i'm unsure if it effectively works.

If i understood correctly there's no way to use MFAA or force MSAA via NCP with AA in-game set to off, but minimum 2X for MFAA to work.

I'd want to try FXAA in conjunction with SMAA via reshade.

can it works?

Disable in-game MSAA and using FXAA from NCP and SMAA via Reshade?

I don't know onestly...

I5-7600K@4,8Ghz - G Skill TridentZ 16Gb 3200 CL14 - Aorus GTX 1080TI - Samsung 950 PRO 512GB NVMe M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 - Lenovo 24'' 1440p - Hotas Warthog - TrackIR 5

 

DCS 2.5 OB - M2000C - Mig21Bis - A10C - FC3 - AJS37 Viggen - F5E - AV8B N/A - F/A18 C - L 39 Albatros - Bf109 - Spitfire - P51D - Black Shark 2 - Nevada - Persian Gulf - Normandy

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I'm also running a 1050Ti, and I'm having terrible luck. I tried similar settings to Kingsnake, with 12 different combinations of FXAA, MFAA, Nvidia's AA, and DCS's MSAA. I couldn't get above 44fps sitting on the ramp at Kobuleti without sacrificing antialiasing.

 

At one point I did get 50fps with antialiasing, but 5 minutes later, with the same settings, and the same mission, I was back down to the 40s.

 

 

For my rig, the only three things that impact performance are 1) AA, 2) Terrain Shadows, and 3) Visible Range.

 

 

Alt- Enter worked for me, i was getting 45 30 45 30 sat on the runway hit alt enter and i was steady 60.

 

I have reduced the settings slightly, water quality pre load, and tree draw distance.

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On one of my missions I found the culprit was about 5 static jets from the Civil Aircraft Mod that I placed at airports across Georgia to give the sim more "life." Deleting those 5 static jets from my mission gave me a 15fps boost.

 

I tried the EVGA program, but since my card isn't EVGA I can't do the Kboost.

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On one of my missions I found the culprit was about 5 static jets from the Civil Aircraft Mod that I placed at airports across Georgia to give the sim more "life." Deleting those 5 static jets from my mission gave me a 15fps boost.

 

I tried the EVGA program, but since my card isn't EVGA I can't do the Kboost.

 

I don't either i'm using afterburner.

 

I do notice a drop in performance near static aircraft

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Doubt it's the gamma setting. Did you ever get it figured out? I just hopped into a AV-8B Harrier Quick Mission for a quick spin (haven't flown it in awhile - waiting for it to get further along in development) and the Right MFD using DMT was looking normal to me.

 

 

Ill make a screenshot if i can in the next hour or two

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Game mode didn't work for me, but I found that I constantly have to delete the 'metashaders' folder to maintain my performance. I had my settings dialed in and got good performance last night, shut down my computer, booted it up today, and suddenly lost 10fps. Deleting 'metashaders' and letting DCS rebuild it gave me my performance back, but a few flights later I suddenly lost 10fps again. Once again, I deleted 'metashaders', relaunched DCS, and all was back to normal.

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