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I'm Afraid To Buy The FW 190 Dora


BuzzU

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I recommend you to get a force feedback stick for wwii.

 

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I still have a cheap joystick. I'm still flying.

 

Warthog was overkill for WW2 planes.

 

Damned if i'm going to pay for Normandy and not use it.

 

Why did you buy the Warthog in the first place? No disrespect intended, but it seems like every second post you make on these forums is one kind of buyer's remorse or another.

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Because I thought I was going to fly the A-10C. Turns out i'm not.

 

Every other post is remorse? Do you exaggerate that much about everything?

 

I complained about my new gaming system when I thought it was the cause of the stutters. I always said it ran perfect otherwise and ran other sims perfect. When I found out the real cause of the stutters it wasn't the system. So, no remorse at all. It was you guys advising me to send it back for a refund. I kept claiming I didn't think it was my system. So, what else do I have all this remorse about?

 

Frankly, what I buy and sell is my business, or do you think I need your permission?

Buzz

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Perhaps my post was a bit of an exaggaration, but like I said, no disrespect intended. You yourself stated the same about the Spitfire, the A10C, Normandy, and DCS in general. It's definitely no one's business but your own what you buy, and how you use it, but you keep stating these things on open public forums.

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Don't confuse complaint with remorse. Also, don't confuse changing my mind with remorse. Do I think $50 for one plane is a hustle? Yes. We end up paying way more than we would if it was a complete sim with all maps and planes. iRacing is the same way. I have $800 invested in it. If they tried to charge $800 for the track and car list in it. Do think anybody would buy it? IL2 BOS is a complete plane set and map for that war. It's complete in every way including missions and campaigns. It cost $50 for all of it.

 

 

The argument that everybody makes is DCS has clickable cockpits. I guess some put more value on that than others do.

Buzz

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Don't confuse complaint with remorse. Also, don't confuse changing my mind with remorse. Do I think $50 for one plane is a hustle? Yes. We end up paying way more than we would if it was a complete sim with all maps and planes. iRacing is the same way. I have $800 invested in it. If they tried to charge $800 for the track and car list in it. Do think anybody would buy it? IL2 BOS is a complete plane set and map for that war. It's complete in every way including missions and campaigns. It cost $50 for all of it.

 

 

The argument that everybody makes is DCS has clickable cockpits. I guess some put more value on that than others do.

DCS is not only about clickable cockpits. In fact, what shines about it, it's the flight model of each individual plane. A professional flight model costs around 100000$ and is unique for each aitcraft. Don't confuse DCS with other "sims" where they have 20 planes based on some tweaked parameters of the same model.

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Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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I doubt the flight model in DCS is anymore accurate than IL2. Not enough for you or I to know the difference. Pilots of the real planes have flown both sims and have given opinions.

 

Do you fly both sims and read what the pilots have said? IL2 hasn't just started to offer WW2 planes like DCS has. They've had a long time to get it right.

 

I'm not ragging on DCS. Just what they charge when there are other options in sims. It takes more than flight models to make a complete WW2 sim. Especially, when you charge top dollar.

Buzz

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I doubt the flight model in DCS is anymore accurate than IL2. Not enough for you or I to know the difference.

 

I would beg to differ, DCS is. Hence, why most all of us are here. :):thumbup:

 

Back on topic, happy I bought the Dora. :pilotfly:

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Flown both, fly RW, it's my day job.

 

DCS>IL2 imho

 

Il2 is great for beginners and those lacking in advanced aerodynamics and modeling. Don't get me wrong, it's very fun but personally I prefer DCS.

 

Now let me get some popcorn and watch the hate mail in reaponses lol

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]1000 miles of road will take you around town, a 1000 feet of runway can take you around the world...unless your in a Huey, you can go anywhere with no runway in a Huey!

 

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AFAIK it's the same guy behind the DCS original AFM/PFM concepts and IL2:BOS FM. So don't ditch IL2 FM as being not accurate enough THAT quickly :) There's far more in terms of modelling than "for beginners", tbh. And I'm not going into damage modelling. It's a bit fast & easy to treat one sim as the mature adult one and the other for children.

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AFAIK it's the same guy behind the DCS original AFM/PFM concepts and IL2:BOS FM. So don't ditch IL2 FM as being not accurate enough THAT quickly :) There's far more in terms of modelling than "for beginners", tbh. And I'm not going into damage modelling. It's a bit fast & easy to treat one sim as the mature adult one and the other for children.

 

DSC PFM runs its own way from 2005 having it's own methods to simulate propeller in different modes, propwash, it's interaction with airframe and, finally, it's own gas turbine and piston engine true thermodynamics modelling.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Please tell me how you can spot a 10m object from 50 km (the distance between Anapa and Novo) in real life.. because I can easily spot them in DCS.

....

If you can spot a WWII fighter from 50km away (without labels of course) you must have a magic configuration or bionic eyes. I can't even see them 5 km away.

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Well, somehow I can.. but don't imagine that I just grab it with my peripheral vision.. I really have to squint to pick it up. And probably my 'not so fancy' 27" monitor @1920x1080 res helps a bit.

Specs:

Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080

 

Settings:

2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5

 

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Flown both, fly RW, it's my day job.

 

DCS>IL2 imho

 

Il2 is great for beginners and those lacking in advanced aerodynamics and modeling. Don't get me wrong, it's very fun but personally I prefer DCS.

 

Now let me get some popcorn and watch the hate mail in reaponses lol

 

 

Well, if DCS is so accurate. Why does Erich Brunotte say the real Dora never felt like the version in DCS?

 

It's ok. You spent a lot of money on DCS and want to think you didn't waste the money on an inaccurate game.

 

Making a plane harder to fly doesn't make it more accurate if the real plane wasn't like that.

Buzz

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Well, if DCS is so accurate. Why does Erich Brunotte say the real Dora never felt like the version in DCS?

 

Where does he say that? Please provide a source, because otherwise this is blatant disinformation.

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First of all you need to stop blaming everyone else or insulting them because their opinion differs from yours. That's either lack of maturity or you being narrow minded, both of which are not good traits for any aviator. So put your big boy pants on and buckle up.

 

I don't have the Dora so I can't can't compare. And basing your entire opinion on what "one guy said" is perfectly fine if you just want to put all your belief into that.

 

IL2 has a fancy beautiful theatre to play in I'll give it that

Damage modeling in DCS is quite poor for smaller caliber projectiles (especially myp51thatcantkillanything and I feel I can mount 6 paintball guns to the wings and do more damage :) but that's neither here nor there) I've never flown "combat" so I can't speak from experience with that, but I can project my experience elsewhere.

 

Let me start off by saying this, no sim that is out there is ultra realistic. There's just something about getting behind a computer screen in an air conditioned room with a beverage of your choice and comfy chair that takes away from the raw feel of strapping your butt into a cold steel man made, ear shattering, fuel burning, flame making machine with a 5 point harness knowing full well any detail missed ,small or large, malfunction occurring (mechanical or otherwise) will force you to think outside the box in hopes of getting yourself safely back down to earth in one piece or in a blazing fireball of which you will never return. That's the cold truth about human flight.

 

Now with that sad you CAN model many things through computers and have a somewhat accurate and enjoyable experience of some aspects of real flight. Hence why we use simulators to train.

 

Now from personal experience I can't compare all DCS modules because I don't have a RW baseline for them all but I have thousands of hours from light aircraft to jetliners, as well as a variety of helicopters, including several aircraft in DCS, F5F, L39, and hopefully the Tucano when she comes out. I also have flown many tail wheel aircraft and instructed in aerobatics as well as upset recovery training.

 

One thing I can tell you from a pilots perspective that the majority of aircraft follow the same general principle, pull back houses get smaller, push forward houses get bigger. Run out of speed, houses get bigger very fast.

 

I know full well everything cannot be modeled in simulators and especially those of the civilian at home accessible ones. But there are several things that stand out to me when I go to enjoy some PC flying that can make or break a sim in my perspective.

 

One of many very noticeable differences from aircraft to aircraft is its weight. Aside from basic aerodynamics, only few sims accurately portray the feel of weight, or in other words inertia. IL2 lacks this basic concept when compared to DCS. I'm not knocking their aerodynamics, just something I've observed. DCS does a very good job in modeling aircraft handling characteristics with changes of weight. And not just climbing performance, I mean turns, rolls, stick pressure changes etc

 

Aside from what I mentioned above something I prefer is immersion into the cockpit. Most people just say "oh clickable cockpit in DCS that's why it's better" to each their own. When strapped into a pressurized bubble sitting on flammable fuel with an engine screeching behind you running at incinerating temperatures, there is no "L alt+home, or R Shift P" etc. You must find the switch, look at it (or feel it) and make sure it supposed to be in the position it is. We lack tactile feel in computer simming, that's we use HOTAS. But having a HOTAS AND an interactive cockpit is definitely more immersive than pressing buttons on a keyboard.

 

As far as you being concerned about me spending my own money on what I wish, that's very cute of you. Like I said, lack of maturity and narrow minded traits are pitfalls of real aviators. Hope your p51 comes across my blazing 30mil cannon on the 109

 

I wish you well in your PC sim adventures

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[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]1000 miles of road will take you around town, a 1000 feet of runway can take you around the world...unless your in a Huey, you can go anywhere with no runway in a Huey!

 

multiplayer name ''DustOff=3=6''

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First of all you need to stop blaming everyone else or insulting them because their opinion differs from yours. That's either lack of maturity or you being narrow minded, both of which are not good traits for any aviator. So put your big boy pants on and buckle up.

 

I don't have the Dora so I can't can't compare. And basing your entire opinion on what "one guy said" is perfectly fine if you just want to put all your belief into that.

 

IL2 has a fancy beautiful theatre to play in I'll give it that

Damage modeling in DCS is quite poor for smaller caliber projectiles (especially myp51thatcantkillanything and I feel I can mount 6 paintball guns to the wings and do more damage :) but that's neither here nor there) I've never flown "combat" so I can't speak from experience with that, but I can project my experience elsewhere.

 

Let me start off by saying this, no sim that is out there is ultra realistic. There's just something about getting behind a computer screen in an air conditioned room with a beverage of your choice and comfy chair that takes away from the raw feel of strapping your butt into a cold steel man made, ear shattering, fuel burning, flame making machine with a 5 point harness knowing full well any detail missed ,small or large, malfunction occurring (mechanical or otherwise) will force you to think outside the box in hopes of getting yourself safely back down to earth in one piece or in a blazing fireball of which you will never return. That's the cold truth about human flight.

 

Now with that sad you CAN model many things through computers and have a somewhat accurate and enjoyable experience of some aspects of real flight. Hence why we use simulators to train.

 

Now from personal experience I can't compare all DCS modules because I don't have a RW baseline for them all but I have thousands of hours from light aircraft to jetliners, as well as a variety of helicopters, including several aircraft in DCS, F5F, L39, and hopefully the Tucano when she comes out. I also have flown many tail wheel aircraft and instructed in aerobatics as well as upset recovery training.

 

One thing I can tell you from a pilots perspective that the majority of aircraft follow the same general principle, pull back houses get smaller, push forward houses get bigger. Run out of speed, houses get bigger very fast.

 

I know full well everything cannot be modeled in simulators and especially those of the civilian at home accessible ones. But there are several things that stand out to me when I go to enjoy some PC flying that can make or break a sim in my perspective.

 

One of many very noticeable differences from aircraft to aircraft is its weight. Aside from basic aerodynamics, only few sims accurately portray the feel of weight, or in other words inertia. IL2 lacks this basic concept when compared to DCS. I'm not knocking their aerodynamics, just something I've observed. DCS does a very good job in modeling aircraft handling characteristics with changes of weight. And not just climbing performance, I mean turns, rolls, stick pressure changes etc

 

Aside from what I mentioned above something I prefer is immersion into the cockpit. Most people just say "oh clickable cockpit in DCS that's why it's better" to each their own. When strapped into a pressurized bubble sitting on flammable fuel with an engine screeching behind you running at incinerating temperatures, there is no "L alt+home, or R Shift P" etc. You must find the switch, look at it (or feel it) and make sure it supposed to be in the position it is. We lack tactile feel in computer simming, that's we use HOTAS. But having a HOTAS AND an interactive cockpit is definitely more immersive than pressing buttons on a keyboard.

 

As far as you being concerned about me spending my own money on what I wish, that's very cute of you. Like I said, lack of maturity and narrow minded traits are pitfalls of real aviators. Hope your p51 comes across my blazing 30mil cannon on the 109

 

I wish you well in your PC sim adventures

 

A lot of assumptions on your part flyboy. You don't have a clue who I am. Easy for you to talk like that at a keyboard.

 

 

For the record. I didn't mention the flight model in DCS until it was brought up by others. My complaint is what's charged for DCS with a flight model no better than the others. When a real WW2 pilot says the flight model is wrong for the Dora. I believe him over someone who flies civilian planes. I have a friend who's a real P-51 pilot. I'll see what he says about the P-51 in DCS when he tries it.

Buzz

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A lot of assumptions on your part flyboy. You don't have a clue who I am. Easy for you to talk like that at a keyboard.

 

 

For the record. I didn't mention the flight model in DCS until it was brought up by others. My complaint is what's charged for DCS with a flight model no better than the others. When a real WW2 pilot says the flight model is wrong for the Dora. I believe him over someone who flies civilian planes. I have a friend who's a real P-51 pilot. I'll see what he says about the P-51 in DCS when he tries it.

 

Well not sure what you mean about assumptions in there because I very clearly stated what and where I had experience. You may not like it but others may find it useful information, so perhaps get over yourself? The fact that you like to resort to name calling is well, not an assumption, but proof that you lack intellectual maturity... but as you were good sir. Fly on!:pilotfly:

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]1000 miles of road will take you around town, a 1000 feet of runway can take you around the world...unless your in a Huey, you can go anywhere with no runway in a Huey!

 

multiplayer name ''DustOff=3=6''

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Well, if DCS is so accurate. Why does Erich Brunotte say the real Dora never felt like the version in DCS?

 

It's ok. You spent a lot of money on DCS and want to think you didn't waste the money on an inaccurate game.

 

Making a plane harder to fly doesn't make it more accurate if the real plane wasn't like that.

 

I have a better question: why was this episode included in the video?


Edited by Yo-Yo

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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1. Erich flew the real thing 72 years ago. That's a terribly long time and it has an impact on how we memorize things. I was born a few weeks before the Dora's were forcibly retired, and I find it difficult to remember details of what happened "only" 60 years ago.

2. Erich was exposed to an early version of the Dora way before release and the module has been improved since.

3. The fundamental differences between flying this monster in combat in 1945 with all your senses feeling accelerations, vibrations, hits, pain, fear etc. and a PC simulation where only your eyes and ears provide feedback in a comfortable environment are so huge that, no matter how good the simulation is, it would not have felt real to Erich.

 

Frankly I find some of this discussion pointless and the communication style of some has potential for improvement. People on this forum ought to respect each other even when they disagree!

 

PS: I love to fly DCS's Dora simulation.:)

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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I'm afraid i'm going to really like it and want to fly it all the time. I have this thing about not wanting to shoot American pilots.

 

Maybe I could just shoot their wings off so they can bail out. :)

 

If it makes you feel better, you can always 'defect' and shoot down your own German wingmen, then start a new mission flying the Fw-190 on the American side :)

 

In sim world, you can do anything you want.

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