Trim no longer working for me.

[Note: Previously Posted in non-related thread]

As of the last few days only, I have discovered that my Trim no longer seems to be working At ALL.

While I noticed a Rolling affect when increasing/decreasing Collective, it appears this is supposed to be Normal (as of the latest update patch). But this also severely affects my flight even when using Altitude Hold. In fact, my Alt Hold is practically useless now.

While in Alt Hold and increasing/decreasing collective to adjust my Speed, not only do I get this above-mentioned rolling effect as well as Pitching Up when collective is increased which ultimately Slows me down rather than Increasing Speed. Speeding up and/or slowing down while in Altitude Hold (AH) and the rolling action really make it difficult to see the advantage of AH.

But more importantly is the issue of my TRIM.

It worked perfectly until just a few days ago (I can only imagine it's a result of the Update).

In DCS Options/Controls I can see my Hotas Trim Hat is recognized and works (as it has since the Gazelle was released). And while in the cockpit with the Controls Manager (CM) visible, I can clearly see that the Trim Inputs are being registered on the CM. But there appears to be absolutely No Trimming Effects taking place.

Previously, I could and did fly primarily using this Trim for speeding up and slowing down.

Now it seems completely Useless and just difficult to fly. And the Altitude Hold just acts wonky now.

BTW - I do NOT have a Force Feedback Hotas. I use the X-55 Rhino.

Furthermore I do NOT use the Magnetic Brake switch, but I DO have all the Trim settings turned on (rarely bother flying without the gyro and trim features).

Is anyone else having this issue with their Trim ?

Does anyone have a solution ? I have tried everything I can think of including DCS Repair to no effect. My Trim simply appears to have stopped working (although the Trim Hat IS working).

Attached Track File

I have just attached a Track File of a flight I just flew in an SP mission a few minutes ago.

My Trim issue exists in both SP and MP Servers.

I tried to create a video using GeForce Experience or whatever it's called. The video quality was poor and it did not record my voice. So I figured a Track File would be the next best thing.

Clearly it's not BUT it does illustrate my issues well enough I think.

I was hoping that the Track file would also show when I had the DCS Options/Controls ON during which you "would have been able" to see that my Hotas Stick IS being recognized ... but the Options do not show up in a Track.

So, there is a few minutes of wasted time at the beginning of this Track. Sorry about that.

If you Increase the Time/Speed (Left Ctrl+Z) until after I turn the Vivienne on you should see that my Trim Hat IS being recognized by the Controls Manager thingy.

Furthermore you should be able to see that without touching my Stick other than to manipulate the Trim Hat, that the In-Cockpit Cyclic responds to my Trim settings and you can see that Trim Reset also works.

But you should also see that the Trim doesn't actually appear to be doing ANYTHING (but mess me up).

You should also be able to see that Alt Hold is NOT working as it should or certainly not as it has for several MONTHS now.

I am doing absolutely NOTHING differently now than I have ever done in the Gazelle. All of my procedures are the same now as they were 2 months ago, let alone last week.

But as of this weekend, it all went to S__t !

Gazelle - TRIM Does Not Work.trk

ok, so you are using the trim hat for trim ?

magnetic break works fine as primary trim ?

lately some changed in the fm also in the system itself. I need to check if a trimhat is still available and is also available in the real aircraft. I remember we talked about somethin many weeks ago, but i need to check with patrick about it

I use the Trim Hat for Trim.

I have never used the Magnetic Trim. I have no need for it.

The "trimhat" as you call it, is still available. As mentioned, the first thing I check was that my Hat (and other Hotas functions) were being recognized in DCS Options/Controls. Hotas is working fine.

Furthermore, as mentioned, the Controls Indicator/Manager sees the trim as it always has. The in-cockpit stick moves when applying trim and holds. The in-cockpit Stick resets to nuetral when Trim Reset (LCtrl+T) is hit.

Everything seems to be fine as usual except the actual in-flight function of the trim.

I don't know how else I can put it.

It has me perplexed.

ok I got you. checking with pat

Heya ST... did you check to see if force feedback is unchecked in options? i know you said you dont use it but my trim doesnt work if for some reason the FF is checked int he options.

Hi dooom.

I did take a look at the FF checkbox. It was blank as I expected. Although, I figured it was best to look in case a patch/update had Checked it on me.

So unfortunately that's not it.

On the hand, I also tried flying the Gazelle in 2.5 (which did not get the same update) and I am having the same issue there too. So I am really confused about all this.

IF there were no affects/reactions taking place in the cockpit then I'd say "it has to be my hotas". But when things "appear" to be working correctly and the cockpit corresponds with my hotas then I get confused.

As such, I am completely confused now. But because I have not seen other reports of the same issue, I am left with thinking "It must be My Hotas" !!! I just can't understand WHAT !

I even checked my hotas to make sure it was sending ghost signals and Nope .. it appears to be all good.

So the only thing I have left to try (that I can think of) is to Unplug and Reconnect my Hotas and see if that doesn't do something (even though it all appears to be working as it should).

I'll give it a try but I don't expect any progress.

PS> I think I already mentioned this but in case I didn't, it is important to note that I do not fly without the SAS/Trim etc. I like the extra stability features for most flying.

DCS 1.5.8.12265.407

The track doesn't seem to work with this version anymore, the Gazelle hits the ground after a while, bounces and makes funny things, so I expect there were changes that made it incompatible.

I just tried, what I observe:

• in speed hold, works as expected, trim up/down change the altitude, speeds remain constant
  
• in alt hold, first the altitude must be level for this to engage
  
  • if I trim nose up, slows down at constant altitude
    
  • if I trim nose down, first the attitude changes to nose up, then after a while it decides to finally nose down and accelerates at constant altitude. If I release the trim button and do it again, it directly goes nose down without the nose up, and if I trim nose up, it directly changes the attitude to nose up and slows down.

That is a bit weird.

In DCS 2.1.1.11762.287 it seems to do that sometimes and for a shorter time, it was less obvious than 1.5.

That figures re: Track no longer working.

Any time I have used Altitude hold, I get to a constant speed and altitude and then apply the Alt Hold. I use the trim to at least assist in reaching the speed I like.

The fact is, I rarely used the Alt Hold, but when I do, in order to speed up or slow down I just use the Collective which seems to control the pitch just enough to speed up/slow down without having to touch the trim.

Oddly, I have been in one Gaz Model in a mission of mine (training only) and everything seems to work perfectly. Then I jump into another model and the trim doesn't work at all.

The latter being the issue I am having more often than not.

Even in other training missions of my own AND Online, the trim won't work.

PS> I haven't had a chance to check out your Track yet. Will do that this morning.

Thanks again.

ok I got you. checking with pat

Hi there :)

Any news regarding this problem? Is it a bug, or something on purpose and we're doing something wrong?

@snowtiger:

Please activate the magnetic trim button. This magnetic trim button does not only allow you to use magnetic trim, it also enables the trim cooliehat on your stick.

Hi borchi 2b

I will try that MagTrim BUT I thought that was used ONLY IF you have FFB and or like using the Magnet Trim which I don't or at least haven't been using ?

Is this something new ? Because this has never been an issue for me for the last 6 months or so (actually from the beginning of the Gaz Release).

BTW - Today is the first time I have been in the Gaz for a week or so. So far it "appears" that my trim is again working ... I think. I'll get back to you on this one.

But not my WP Needle doesn't work on the HSI ... but I'll open a new thread on that.

Well this seems to have worked.

Just to confirm, my FFB is UNCHECKED in the DCS Controls Options.

I have activated the Magnetic Brake Switch and the Trim now appears to be behaving normally (or as it should).

Oddly, I have NEVER needed this Magnetic Switch in the past.

Nice to see you've sorted it out! :)

I'm always switching that on as part of the start-up procedure so I can't say I've noticed anything about that recently. Nothing visible in the SA342 log except long ago (June 2016).

I've haven't tested it again to see if I still had this strange trim up/down inversion with altitude hold, when it slows down instead of accelerating. Perhaps it's intended, though I wouldn't see why. If you see anything like that let me know.

Happy flying!

Ya I definitely don't get it unless this is something that has been recently changed intentionally. But I'll take it as long as it works. The unfortunate thing is the 2 weeks of unnecessary frustration. It's a continuous Relearning experience. Who knows what it will be like next week and next month !!

I hope you too get your trim issues resolved quickly.

I can say that mine was doing much the same with the slowing down when it should be speeding up etc. It surely can't be intended and I know it worked correctly a few weeks ago (and for many months prior to that). At least that has been my experience.

Thanks again friend.

what do you mean by the following?

I can say that mine was doing much the same with the slowing down when it should be speeding up etc. It surely can't be intended and I know it worked correctly a few weeks ago (and for many months prior to that).

i have to ask cause being all over and having all topics on brin memory is impossible so have to ask what you are explaining there in detail

I think it's regarding this earlier post, I thought it was part of what SnowTiger was experiencing but he just confirmed it was not.

Perhaps it's just realistic, intended behaviour (part in red below):

DCS 1.5.8.12265.407

[...]

• in speed hold, works as expected, trim up/down change the altitude, speeds remain constant
  
• in alt hold, first the altitude must be level for this to engage
  
  • if I trim nose up, slows down at constant altitude
    
  • if I trim nose down, first the attitude changes to nose up, then after a while it decides to finally nose down and accelerates at constant altitude. If I release the trim button and do it again, it directly goes nose down without the nose up, and if I trim nose up, it directly changes the attitude to nose up and slows down.

 

That is a bit weird.

 

In DCS 2.1.1.11762.287 it seems to do that sometimes and for a shorter time, it was less obvious than 1.5.

If you think it's not normal, I can report that properly with a track in another thread, I didn't mean to hijack this one :)

Redglyph ... You haven't hijacked anything.

I think our issues are very similar if not related.

The only difference for me was while in Alt Hold, I'd increase collective but would end up slowing down (to 100 or less) instead of speeding up like it used to do.

I never used trim while in Alt Hold (or speed hold for that matter). Only Collective.

I stopped seeing the Nose Up/Nose Down attitude when trimming when NOT using Alt Hold.

My issues appear to have been corrected using Mag Brake switch as suggested.

No response for that, neither in the other thread.

I suppose I should create yet another thread, since I don't know whether it's normal or not. It does seems suspicious. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort, it will probably end up unanswered as well, I'll just let someone else report it if that's a problem for them.

same here. Any feedback on this from Polychop? (sry don't have time to read this thread) also I created a thread about it (not in Polychop as I thought bug is caused by ED: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=198489

Hey guys,

Im also having some trim issues with the Gazelle,

My FFB is disabled and the magnetic switch is on, im using the trim button to hold the desired attitude and using the coolie hat for minor adjustments, however my problem is once i hit the trim button and let go of the stick, there is always a tendency to roll to the right in cruise flight above 120kph. I need to maintain constant left pressure on the stick to keep the attitude and heading. Trimming only seems to affect pitch not roll. Any advice?

Im also new to the Gazelle and finding the info very confusing about trimming.

Whats the difference between Trim on/off, trimmer, trimmer reset, magnetic brake, autopilot alt and speed modes, and do they conflict?

Ive tried every combination but trimmer on the hat switch does nothing. The only thing that works intuitively, like in the huey, is the trim switch for rudder (when activated in the special menu). Id expect you to be able to freeze the control positions same in the gazelle with the trim button but it doesnt do anyting.

@Sprool

We are waiting since 2016 for realistic controls and FM. ATM Trim on/off, trimmer, trimmer reset, magnetic brake, autopilot alt and speed modes are just based on a fantasy of PC.

But didnt it work last year, or before the recent DCS update? I saw a couple of youtube videos with people demonstrating the hatstick for trimming in-flight.

It never worked for FFB joysticks, the most realistic way to simulate trimming in a sim (especially in the other helicopter modules). And it's the only module in DCS with a desastrous FFB implementation that never got fixed. The other really bad thing is how stick deflection vs control input is implemented, PC intentionally set it up for extra long joystick extensions which gives you fine control around the center, but if you don't have an extension on a normal stick, movement of a couple of millimeters already results in very aggressive control input and aircraft reaction.