Rift S or Index or Reverb

@jojo

It isn't just more resolution, it's also better LCD panels (Rift S uses one panel only, cheapest manufacturing solution). Here are some measurements:

More luminance means higher contrast levels, better color reproduction (sRGB levels etc.) and higher dynamic range than other LCD driven HMD's. You can set gamma in DCS to a much more realistic setting of 2.2 this is OLED territory (where Rift S users report washed out colors). That's only the panels, the audio solution with nearfield BMR speakers is also superior, the microphones are the best ever in a VR HMD. The new optics system allows your eyes to see much more of the panels, besides higher FOV this also leads to edge to edge clarity, never seen that in an HMD before. The headstrap is extremely comfortable, i have also PSVR, so i know that Lenovo's halo system for the Rift S isn't the most comfortable solution out there. The cameras for pass through are 960×960 pixels color sensors. And on top of that, everything is highly adjustable, IPD setting, eye relief setting etc. The tracking system...

So yes, i would call this superior hardware. I sold my Vive Pro instantly after i got the Index.

@Baldrick33

SteamVR never failed me on it's native devices since 2016, i had the Vive, the Vive Pro, backed Pimax 5K+ (sold it immediately because of the bad LCD panels) and now the Index. If they introduce new features that won't work right away with all the other VR hardware vendors they support on top of that (for free, not like Oculus/Facebook does), they also fixed that always very quickly. The api is called OpenVR for a reason.

@jojo

 

It isn't just more resolution, it's also better LCD panels (Rift S uses one panel only, cheapest manufacturing solution). Here are some measurements:

More luminance means higher contrast levels, better color reproduction (sRGB levels etc.) and higher dynamic range than other LCD driven HMD's. You can set gamma in DCS to a much more realistic setting of 2.2 this is OLED territory (where Rift S users report washed out colors). That's only the panels, the audio solution with nearfield BMR speakers is also superior, the microphones are the best ever in a VR HMD. The new optics system allows your eyes to see much more of the panels, besides higher FOV this also leads to edge to edge clarity, never seen that in an HMD before. The headstrap is extremely comfortable, i have also PSVR, so i know that Lenovo's halo system for the Rift S isn't the most comfortable solution out there. The cameras for pass through are 960×960 pixels color sensors. And on top of that, everything is highly adjustable, IPD setting, eye relief setting etc. The tracking system...

So yes, i would call this superior hardware. I sold my Vive Pro instantly after i got the Index.

No need to repeat all the marketing feature.

I know, and like MRTV said: Index = the best money can buy.

But if it is twice as expensive as Rift S, I don't think it's twice as good on my main point of concern: visual.

If it has been 2160p I would have been willing to spend 1K.

But each his own priority...

For me it was just 539,- bucks. I made a good decision about a modular VR tracking system a couple years ago.

Hansangb, I was sitting at lunch (that is about the only time I get to play around) the other day eating a small sandwich and fooling with the Reverb, when one of my friends, a post-doc in another lab said, "Try the Reverb now, ... it's looking better than the Rift S." I started off in my standard F-18 over Dubai mission and noticed the text on the DDIs and cockpit were pretty legible and sharp. I thought, ... finally something that is more clear to me than the Rift S for reading instruments. But then I started looking around the city and noticed things were not as detailed as with the Rift S, and not as smooth.

 

That is my experience on almost a daily basis. Although it is not the highest resolution, or the best sound, or the best anti-SDE, the total effect after hundreds of trials and tinkering sessions is that the Rift S is just a faster, more natural and better implementation. And I put that down to just plain better code and more time spent on it. Although I am not a Facebook fan, they do have hundreds of developers and engineers who have worked to make the Rift S a smooth experience. I do not know the development team size for Valve, HP or Samsung, but I suspect they have just not dedicated as many resources to it.

No arguments from me. Rift has had a *long* head start and I stuck with them since DK1, DK2, and CV1. Vastly less tinkering required with Rift.

P5K+ has potential, I do love the wider FoV, but I'm getting tired of messing with it.

Reverb is in the middle. Much better clarity, a little more tinkering with smooth flight. If I could marry the wider FoV of P5K+ with the clarity of Reverb, and the smoothness of Rift....now we're talking! :D

I know there is a lot of worry about Oculus being owned by Facebook, but in my trials with the Reverb, I have come to the conclusion that letting Microsoft handle the software end of things is even worse. I really believed in Oculus, but they kinda let me down with the marginal increase in resolution announced for the Rift S. The Reverb and the WMR crap has been a bumpy road, but after all the screwing around, I'm happy with the result.

Didn't Wags say ED was going to make the Reverb native to DCS?

Didn't Wags say ED was going to make the Reverb native to DCS?

Yes in did!

In a two weeks. :music_whistling:

Yes in did!

In a two weeks. :music_whistling:

I hope ED does soon, I have been using my Reverb for several days and there is absolutely no way I would ever go back to a HMD with less resolution or worse SDE. I tried out my Index this morning in DCS and it was horrendous after getting use to the Reverb.

If anyone can afford a reverb, get one, trust me you don't know what your missing out on.

Didn't Wags say ED was going to make the Reverb native to DCS?

I think in this case it isn’t about just the Reverb but about native WMR support in DCS World. :smilewink:

I think in this case it isn’t about just the Reverb but about native WMR support in DCS World. :smilewink:

Yup, but it was the Reverb that had enough of a "HOLY S***!!!" factor to it to make it worth implementing native WMR support. :D

Are there two reverb headsets? Normal and pro or just the one.

HP Australia said reverb is here In October , not sure if I need to go back and ask which one ?

Are there two reverb headsets? Normal and pro or just the one.

 

HP Australia said reverb is here In October , not sure if I need to go back and ask which one ?

Original Reverb Pro had 3 years warranty on top of others “cosmetic” features.

But it looks like now even Pro Reverb are “downgraded” to 1 year warranty. So I’m not sure if the Pro Reverb is that much interesting now.

Other features of the pro variant were different facial mask (easier to clean) and additional short cable for back pack computer use.

I am been mulling over the rift S and index for some weeks now. My pre-order for the index just came in and I have gone for that (fingers crossed on controller issue).

Coming from a CV1 I think I just found that the Rift S did not have enough improvements over the original despite its price. I still dont think that the index is worth the money but I like what valve are doing and hopefully they will continue with backwards compatibility in the future. I also play vr games that are not sims so hopefully the controllers will get better with time.

I think that whatever headset you get, providing it works as intended, will offer a great experience. It is a good time for vr

I was an early adopter of the original Rift back in 2016. The software updates would occasionally render the device unusable until patched which was pretty frustrating especially if you did scheduled events like online league racing etc.

 

Since then the Oculus software has matured so it is currently regarded as mature and stable compared with SteamVR and WMR, which is somewhat more in its infancy. Even now a SteamVR update can have a significant impact on one or more devices.

 

It is generally not an issue but I can see why the Rift S would be seen as a safer choice, though not without its own issues (e.g. white flashes) but they tend to get sorted in a reasonable time frame.

 

So it isn't just about set up but the stability of the software once set up.

 

That said I am happy to be a bit of a pioneer with this stuff and accept it is rather bleeding edge.

Just want to mention the white static flashes in Rift S appear solved with latest update.

Most folks including myself have not seen one since the update.

Choosing between headsets is really just a couple of key thoughts:

What Games/Sims are you playing?

If you play a lot of portal games, it's hard to beat a Rift S.

Optimized for lower-rez low-poly count VR Games as found in the Oculus Portal.

$1b worth of software engineering for all of that.

But remember, optimized for portal games means adequate for flight sims like DCS, not optimal for flight sims like DCS.

What does the objective data show?

The Rift S is only 20% denser in PPD than the Rift CV-1. But well priced.

The Index is 30% denser in PPD than the Rift CV-1. Priced high for what you get in visuals.

The Reverb is 130% denser in PPD than the Rift CV-1. Mid-Price level but highest clarity around.

The key to relative Clarity in HMD's is PPD (Pixels Per Degree) - Check the chart linked below.

If you're primarily DCS and other flight sims, the Reverb is your best choice here. (Circa. 8/2019)

Significantly clearer than any of the other headsets today. Period.

If you want to spot tankers at 20 miles, ground targets at 10K+, call the ball clearly from more than 1 mile behind the Stennis - that's the Reverb.

If you're using PD higher than 1 in DCS, and using any MSAA - then you're mushing pixels to get the illusion of clarity in a lower rez VR HMD.

Then you aren't getting the Clarity you may think you have.

Any of these is not likely to be your last HMD. The tech is rapidly changing and every 6 months something else will arrive. Good news is, used sells well.

https://vr4dcs.com/2019/08/01/vr-hmd-specs-compare/

It seems that reverb is the best choice, but if you cannot buy it... it disappears as a real option!

It seems that reverb is the best choice, but if you cannot buy it... it disappears as a real option!

Based on the chart and experience, a used O+ is also a great choice. Well priced and nearly as clear as a Rift S. If a Reverb is not yet available, I’d wait lol.

An Index though is pricier and less clear, but maybe no wait.

It seems that reverb is the best choice, but if you cannot buy it... it disappears as a real option!

Or you wait a mont or two and get reverbn2.0...

Yup, but it was the Reverb that had enough of a "HOLY S***!!!" factor to it to make it worth implementing native WMR support. :D

I cant say enough about the holy shit factor. First time i fired it up i was gobsmacked. No SDE, moniotor level visuals. Holy shit... i mean i went full John Mcaffe for a few minutes.

It took a while but i did eventually notice some chromatic abberation on the scene edges and a tiny bit of mura if i was looking at a white screen. But these are stupidly minor issues relative to the clairty you get. I've had none of the performance issues (flickering/screens dying etc) that a few folks have reported.

I cant say enough about the holy shit factor. First time i fired it up i was gobsmacked. No SDE, moniotor level visuals. Holy shit... i mean i went full John Mcaffe for a few minutes.

 

 

It took a while but i did eventually notice some chromatic abberation on the scene edges and a tiny bit of mura if i was looking at a white screen. But these are stupidly minor issues relative to the clairty you get. I've had none of the performance issues (flickering/screens dying etc) that a few folks have reported.

On me second Reverb and its been good except for the flashlight feature where only the left camera works but I think that's a WMR issues as its been reported on other HMDs too. No flickering or screen dimming on the Reverb either.

For me, there are only two real choices.

No1 is Reverb. it is 600$ but give most for the money. Worth any cent. It is only HMD which was compared with monitor pictures experience. Only Reverb. That speaks everything about it.

Rift-S is the second choice. It is really balanced on all aspects which create VR experience and all of this for just 400$. VR impression is in range and comparable with much more expensive models like Index or Vive PRO. If your main occupation in VR is not Sims but casual VR gameplay or you are on budget Rift-S is maybe even first choice for you.

Samsung O+ is also still a good choice but ...

The way how they deal with SDE is adding additional blurriness to picture and OLED display how superior is in color presentation but have 1/3 fewer subpixels what is creating inferior clarity by that 1/3 and clarity is important in DCS to be more competitive in MP and PvP gameplay. And one more I think will be discontinued soon as rest of the gen1 WMR, I guess.

Of course, I'm referring on DCS usage generally not Beat Sabre and on all of this HMD, you can play Beat Sabre as well.

Or you wait a mont or two and get reverbn2.0...

Yeah for Reverb I would wait for hopefully a device with the needed fix for the unit.

Too many issues being reported with the unit IMHO.

I am still considering adding one to compliment my Rift S just for flight sims, but will wait a bit before I decide to do so.

For me, there are only two real choices.

No1 is Reverb. it is 600$ but give most for the money. Worth any cent. It is only HMD which was compared with monitor pictures experience. Only Reverb. That speaks everything about it.

 

Rift-S is the second choice. It is really balanced on all aspects which create VR experience and all of this for just 400$. VR impression is in range and comparable with much more expensive models like Index or Vive PRO. If your main occupation in VR is not Sims but casual VR gameplay or you are on budget Rift-S is maybe even first choice for you.

 

Yeah I think the above depends on what experience the user wants to get out of VR.

If it were just for flight or racing sims, yes Reverb is a good option as long as they get the kinks worked out on it.

For the overall VR experience, Rift S would be best bang for buck IMHO.

Touch Controllers are awesome, Tracking is very good with the 5 cameras on headset, some great games/experiences available for it, and it handles DCS pretty darn good with some higher GFX settings. And image looks great. Only real issue with it has been the white static flashes occasionally, and they resolved that in last update to firmware/software.

I would also add when I first got my Rift CV1, I thought I would only be using it for flight sims.

Boy was I wrong, have really enjoyed some other Touch supported games - flight sims is still the main and first love for me, but having a blast with other games also from time to time.

Yeah I think the above depends on what experience the user wants to get out of VR.

If it were just for flight or racing sims, yes Reverb is a good option as long as they get the kinks worked out on it.

 

For the overall VR experience, Rift S would be best bang for buck IMHO.

Touch Controllers are awesome, Tracking is very good with the 5 cameras on headset, some great games/experiences available for it, and it handles DCS pretty darn good with some higher GFX settings. And image looks great. Only real issue with it has been the white static flashes occasionally, and they resolved that in last update to firmware/software.

 

I would also add when I first got my Rift CV1, I thought I would only be using it for flight sims.

Boy was I wrong, have really enjoyed some other Touch supported games - flight sims is still the main and first love for me, but having a blast with other games also from time to time.

Yeah I totally agree. I pretty much only play DCS or other sims, so the reverb is perfect for that at its price point. If I actually played other VR games (I tried a few with the CV1) then I'd probably want the RiftS, mainly due to the vastly superior controllers. The index is a bit of an outlier, from what I read res isn't really much better than the RiftS, but you do have better FOV and controllers. But its the most expensive option.

My RIFT S is here next week, will order a Reverb in October/November here in AUS.