DCS: Fw 190A-8 Discussion

i really wonder how shes gonna compete against spit and mustang and how different shes gonna be to fly compared to the D9.

Rough comparison to the D9:

Obviously slower, slightly better role-rate, slightly worse turn rate.

Against the P51 it will struggle immensely in a 1 v 1 at co alt.

Against the Spit you should use superior energy retention to zoom away. From a brief look at the data presented at WW2 aircraft performance site, the A8 has a bout 20 mph better top speed that the MkIX.

Don't quote me on that just now.

So in conclustion you never should engage without a significant energy advantage against both of these aircraft.

Performing well in it will be quite the challenge. :joystick:

Could you please confirm what the axes are and what the units are in those graphs?

 

I am assuming the vertical axis in each graph is maximum achieved speed in km/h.

 

 

But what is the horizontal axis? Time in seconds?

 

 

 

Also, is that in-game data, or did you get the numbers from some historical source. If so, what was the reference? Thanks.

Hey Dietrich,

Yes it is Km/h and time in Seconds, that is the currenty ingame Data tested with both Aircraft, one was in a vertical dive the other one in Level Speed.

@ Philstyle there is no test aviable from RAF for LF MK IX at least i found nothing, but A should do it more then doable gainst LF when they could deal with a XIV Spit in a Dive thats the Point.

And when you dont belive this, watch your Frustration Videos again, and then do it in the Actuall Version of the Game....

RAF reported to follow in a Dive 21lbs for Griffon spit against the 190D, but I dont found any source or Time witch Version of 190D9 they mean thats why i dont post this...

@ Philstyle there is no test aviable from RAF for LF MK IX at least i found nothing, but A should do it more then doable gainst LF when they could deal with a XIV Spit in a Dive thats the Point.

And when you dont belive this, watch your Frustration Videos again, and then do it in the Actuall Version of the Game....

Don't worry, I do believe you. I was just wondering why you used the 14 data.

I agree that the 190A should still perform better in a dive (at least in terms of max dive speed) against a Spit IX, and would even do well still against the XIV.

'For thos who might be interested, I compiled the max-level-speed at sea level results for a bunch of published FW190A8 tests and the Spitfire IX (merlin 66 at 18lb) that I could find.

The results are in favour, slightly, of the FW190A8 at very low altitudes, by between 10 and 20 kph.

Here's the combined data, with references and a graph to aid in interpretation.

The "avergae" is just that.. and average of the published results. The "average" lines are not prescriptive.

"MEDIAN RESULT of all Fw190A-8" is wrong.

You put together FWs with early basic engine setting (1,42ATA) and planes after release "erhöhter Notleistung" (1,56ATA for low supercharger).

We do not know which we will get, no answer from ED yet.

You mixed speeds range around 550km/h for first and around 575km/h for second and made median, but it gives wrong picture about Fw speed.

You should count planes, or tests results only with the same engine setting.

"MEDIAN RESULT of all Fw190A-8" is wrong.

 

You put together FWs with early basic engine setting (1,42ATA) and planes after release "erhöhter Notleistung" (1,56ATA for low supercharger).

We do not know which we will get, no answer from ED yet.

You mixed speeds range around 550km/h for first and around 575km/h for second and made median, but it gives wrong picture about Fw speed.

 

You should count planes, or tests results only with the same engine setting.

Those figures simply don't exist though as far as I can tell. There isn't a list of 5 or 10 results all with the same airframe and engine setting. Even if there were, someone would argue that that air-frame had a different paint, or a few rivets showing that the in-game version didn't have.

Almost every test available online has a differnt engine configuration, or slightly differnt atmoshperic conditions, or an air-frame modification in one way or another.

This goes for the Spitifre as well as the FW190.

The only way to get a feel for the general performance over the range for that type is to list all the various resutls side by side, provide an average them, show the range and provide the references which I have done.

If you don't want to reference the "average" figure you don't have to. That's why I provided them all side-by-side with the references.

At face value I would suggest some of the 190 are at 1.42 in erhöhter Notleistung, 1.56 in erhöhter Notleistung and the others in 1.56 in full military, but that's supposition on my part.

It is interesting that those tested in late 44 are the least well performing, and by 30-50km/h! However, this makes me believe these were perhaps tested without using erhöhter Notleistung.

As I understand it erhöhter Notleistung is essentially equivalent to War Emergency Power in the P-51/Spitfire, i.e. that no additives are used and it is simply allowing the powerplant to run under greater stress for a limited period?

As for the Spit, it's always troublesome as Phil points out, to find a performance chart representative for a line aircraft in mid-1944 as all the most recent tests apply to aircraft testing some modification or other, often on a non-standard airframe. The fact that early IXs were limited to 15lb (1942 test) yet many roll-out these as refernce to the mid-44 example complicates matters.

Generally, as I understand it, the two should actually be surprisingly well matched for two aircraft of such differing design ethos; roll and initial dive acceleration with the 190, turn with the Spit, climb being fairly even steven, with the Fw inching out the Spit in a level WEP race; be interesting to see how they compare in top-speed at full military power....

Now is hopefully clear, what i meant,

speed difference between these two engines settings is visible on chart below with basic description.

@Coyote So what will it be? 1.42 ata or 1.56 ata version?

- What is the right color for RLM 41?

Kinda hard to find information on RLM 41.

Found this color-chart from a model-makers site:

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21273590_1648467815187666_7867430957041260547_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&oh=95582e580b0ed95c1b578a2bdf134699&oe=5C193A31

I´ve used an average blur in Photoshop and came up with the following Hex code for RLM 41: 42494f

Not sure though if this is the exact color.

Inspiration for this color chart came from Michael Ullmanns book : “Luftwaffe colors 1935-1945”

You can also find a color chart of this book here:

http://www.crecy.co.uk/luftwaffe-colours-1935-1945-paint-chip-chart

(you can just enlarge it)

If I use an average blur on the paint chip from this site I come up with a slightly lighter value for RLM 41 of: 4c515f

Maybe this helps.

I have some pictures of a section of 190 Cockpit on Display in the Technik Museum in Berlin. IIRC the plaque said it was a D-9 but the instruments resemble the A-8 layout much more closely than that of the D-9 in DCS. They are a bit glarey, but you can make out the colours quite well. The other question is if its been restored "Correctly" by the museum. If you'd like, or if you think they might be useful I can PM them to you Coyote.

- What is the right color for RLM 41?

This page has always been a great reference for my own research (L.Div 521 is referenced):

http://www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/flugzeugbau/farben.htm

(I've attached the samples as a screenshot separately)

EDIT: This link might come in handy for the external paints: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/luftwaffe/colors.html

Hi Guys!

 

There was an instruction L.Div 521 from December 1941 that described how to paint the cockpit of the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A-8.

 

Under the glass the cockpit was painted in grey-black RLM 66 and the instrument panel in grey RLM 41.

 

Two questions:

- Were these colors actual for Fw 190 A-8 in 1944?

- What is the right color for RLM 41?

According to JaPo publishing - Focke-Wulf Fw190D-9 camuflage & markings, part1

"... In Addition, the cockpit and area would henceforth receive only a single coat of RLM 66 istead of two previously. ..."

This comes from : HM-Anweisung Nr.7/42 on "Simplifying Surface Treatment for Land Base Aircraft" of 18 May 1942

btw. cockpit of an A-6 in South Africa, looks painted in one color (looks like RLM 66) and it is perhaps in original conditions. No another colour there.

Would a follow-on module for the Fw-190F-8, based on this one be possible? I would expect it to be a separate module, which would be fine by me. With the similarity of the two airframes, it would be significantly easy to add some mud-mover parts to the bird.

Looking at the screenshot in Coyote's post on the weapons (REF), there seem to be 2x MG-131 (13mm) and 4x MG-151 (20mm) with two switches in between the MG-151 counters. A couple of questions...

1. Does that mean pairs of MG-151 cannons can be selected separately?

2. Could we could fire all six guns simultaneously?

3. How much ammunition is there per gun? Or, in order to compare it to something, is the amount of ammunition per gun the same as those in the D-9?

For the 2 Cannon version there are 475 RPG for the MGs and 250 RPG for the cannons.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190-a8-glce2.jpg

For the outer wing cannons apparently 140 RPG. It is hard to read and almost looks like it says 440, but considering that that would be way more than the inner wing ones, and that the Gondolas carry 145 RPG I think it says 140.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/fw190-a8-level-speed-13nov43.jpg

A couple of questions...

 

1. Does that mean pairs of MG-151 cannons can be selected separately?

 

2. Could we could fire all six guns simultaneously?

 

3. How much ammunition is there per gun? Or, in order to compare it to something, is the amount of ammunition per gun the same as those in the D-9?

I hope usefull answers are on pictures, but ammo numbers are different, i guess that right is on German document.

Thanks everyone for multiple prompt and informative replies. It is greatly appreciated.

Nice Dortenmann, the Dora Ace.

As i see, there's no upgraded engine on his Anton.