The next opportunity for vkb and vpc: force feedback base?

Both groups will soon have some very smart grips available.

So how about chaps, and chance of a new base supporting force feedback?

I think there is some sort of stupid patent preventing folks from developing force feedback controllers until 2020 or something.

There's already an active thread discussing the very same thing.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=195205

If there is no patent, I say YES :thumbup:

If there is no patent, I say YES :thumbup:

If we get a new force feedback stick I will purchase as soon as possible. :joystick:

In the mean time I use second hand force feedback joysticks, purchased from e-bay, such as MSFF2 and Saitek cyborg evo FF. :)

I think everyone would want to purchase a quality FF stick if one was produced and I think such a stick would corner the market and knock all the other competitors out.

Happy landings,

I was asking at the VKB forums about whether a gimbal base like the gunfighter with a 'force trim' system was something VKB would be considering. It seems at the moment, there are no active plans to develop something. Too niche and especially, to bulky it seems. Although i reckon, a FFB joystick would have a bigger comsumerbase. I wouldn't be to hopeful atm that something will materialize in the coming years.

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2801

I think there is some sort of stupid patent preventing folks from developing force feedback controllers until 2020 or something.

Source?

Is there any news concerning Virpil or VKB making progress on a FFB stick base? (With the idea to be able to cover both heli force trim and fixed wing aviation) The Irid one with magnetic doesn't seems at all to be ready, and these magnetic forces bring other issues...

After spending some time at car racing with modern excellent FFB wheels (like T300, between others), going back to planes -even with the nice Warthog- was terribly insipid... my wallet is ready for a new stick to replace the Warthog, but I'll definitely wait for a FFB stick!!!

If it would fit a WH base it would be my next toy :) The patent issue was between MS and Immersion who sued each other. It didnt stop Logitechs G940 so there is some hope.

Source?

Just google: patent force feedback joystick

You'll see everyone getting sued for FFB or haptic feedback joysticks/controllers.

If it would fit a WH base it would be my next toy :) The patent issue was between MS and Immersion who sued each other. It didnt stop Logitechs G940 so there is some hope.

The 2002 Immersion law suit against Sony and Microsoft and relative to "rubble" effect, not exactly Force Feedback.

Seems that Logitech has patent on FFB, besides license from Immersion for use their technology- from their (FFB racing wheels) manuals:

"Force Feedback powered by Immersion Touchsense Technology and Logitech Force Feedback Technology. Protected by one or more of the Immersion Corporation patents listed in the included Installation Guide. Logitech patents pending."

The question is: small joystick "boutiques" like VKB, VPC afford pay that licences for sell few hundred units a year?

VKB say that already make prototypes FFB, including rudder pedal, but don't plan enter in FFB market at short/medium term.

Probable the best hope for virtual pilots is Iris Dynamics:

https://vs4.irisdynamics.com/magnetic-force-feedback-joysticks/

Consumer Electronic Sextoys ?

Relevant username.

Maybe they just could give it another name? I don't care for rumble effects, all I really want is trimming and control surface load forces..

The 2002 Immersion law suit against Sony and Microsoft and relative to "rubble" effect, not exactly Force Feedback.

 

Seems that Logitech has patent on FFB, besides license from Immersion for use their technology- from their (FFB racing wheels) manuals

Immersion has a lot of patents regarding force feedback, which includes FFB joysticks as well as rumble. They sued Sony and Microsoft for patent infringement for the rumble effect, but they also own the relevant patents for FFB joysticks as well.

Logitech does not have a patent on FFB devices (hence the "patents pending" part in the manual), they are only licensing it from Immersion.

Google Patents search shows that Immersion holds a ton of patents regarding force feedback devices. They basically patented almost everything conceivable related to force feedback, from mice to buttons to even how to send force feedback commands over a website:

https://patents.google.com/?q=force&q=feedback&assignee=Immersion+Corporation&oq=force+feedback+assignee:(Immersion+Corporation)

Iris Dynamics most likely gets around the Immersion patents because they use electromagnets and linear actuators, although Immersion also own a patent for electromagnetically-controlled force feedback as well, although it doesn't look like it's linear:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6982696B1/en?q=force&q=feedback&assignee=Immersion+Corporation&oq=force+feedback+assignee:(Immersion+Corporation)

Chances are that either Iris Dynamics has licensed the patent (hence the $1,000+ price point), or they found some way to not infringe on Immersion's patents.

As for the patent expiration date, last time I checked it was around 2019 that the related patents should expire, so we might see an influx of FFB joysticks sometime around then, assuming that manufacturers actually want to make them.

As for the patent expiration date, last time I checked it was around 2019 that the related patents should expire, so we might see an influx of FFB joysticks sometime around then, assuming that manufacturers actually want to make them.

There was a lot of interest in the Logi 940. It was really a shame that they saved a few dollars using the cheap pots and made a poor job of the throttle wiring :( I bought 1 :(

I don’t see how a company could have a current patent on control loading as a whole, only a specific implementation.

Then again with how the US patent system work it doesn’t necessarily matter. Even if you aren’t infringing patent trolls will drown you in legal fees until you settle.

Here’s to hoping.

Force feedback joystick is so cool that I can't choose to have a better one (more buttons / hats / break lever or pinky) without FF.

Sometimes it's super cool - and - realistic (like with non-FBW controls aircraft, when forces are getting stronger with speed like with Sturmovik's WW2 planes), sometimes it's not realistic but still super cool (vibrating with guns, out-centering stick with trim, woobling when stall, feeling hit and suddenly light weight wing when dropping a heavy bomb unit, etc ... best exemple being with Falcon BMS while the real F-16 stick don't move at all lol !).

So if someone make a modern FFB stick with nice grip/controls like do VKB, Virpil or Thrustmaster, it's gona be another drama for my wallet...

Since this FFB question always appear in VKB il2.ru section, their latest answer (last week):

- Ожидать всегда можно ;)

- По нашим последним вариантам это может быть устройство только топ-топ класса, и не настольным. И буржуазной ценой.

~ Hope is free. ;)

~ If made will be a high-end device, without desktop option, with "bourgeois price". :)

Sokol1 br it's also my guess.... but my FFB2 is near to its 20 years working flawlessly. When I will change it I won't be too much concerned with price if not crazy high like some pro stuff (thinking throttletek...).

Of course it will be expensive but if it's like 50% max price increase from non FFB version it will be easy for me to justify. I hope the factory won't reason like an Apple like company, thinking adding the old and widely used force feedback tech is a revolution... and the price to be so...

To keep you guys impatient - "Grandma told": :D

sometimes it's not realistic but still super cool (vibrating with guns, out-centering stick with trim, woobling when stall, feeling hit and suddenly light weight wing when dropping a heavy bomb unit, etc ... best exemple being with Falcon BMS while the real F-16 stick don't move at all lol !).

It is actually realistic for many. As example with Mig-29 or Mig-27 the gun recoil is so strong that the whole cockpit shakes and all instruments shake so you can't read them.

So stick not shaking in your hand? That would be unrealistic.

The "out centering stick with trim" I take you mean the action where you move the stick where the control is wanted and press trim and the stick stays there?

If you look carefully the Su-25, Mig-21, Su-27 etc stick trimming, the stick gets moved when you are trimming. The same is with KA-50 like where you can press and hold trim and move the cyclic to new location and release trim and it stays there as that is the new trimmed position.

Some effects are just for the effects and some can be terrible. Like I remember when the Red Baron II came out and Microsoft FF2 was out, the machinegun shooting made by default the stick shake so badly that you fell from the skies. So you needed to put the force down or off to be able shoot accurately.

Actually flying with ffb stick helps alot in dcs particularly in su-27, 33 and helos. In Su-27, I no longer breaking my wings because of pulling to many G. I can "feel" it through my sticks.