M-2000C Update Discussion

I have been flying around for the last 30 minutes or so, and I can confirm the Mirage fixes are indeed included in today's patch: it feels like a different aircraft now :)

 

Thanks RAZBAM ! :D

+1

it feels like a different aircraft now :)

For better, I hope.

it's insane how different it feels and handles, I have some questions now, how are we supposed to land now since we don't have the insane drag at low speed anymore?

I'm facing some difficulties trying to fly below 200 knots without the airbrakes.

Now it has a tendency to pitch down at low speed (and not so slow) which forces me to constantly pull the stick or trim it...is that normal in a FBW plane?, I mean, I expect some nose down tendency at low speed but the few minutes I tested it it was quite strong...anyway, too soon to shape an correct idea of the whole change.

Now it has a tendency to pitch down at low speed (and not so slow) which forces me to constantly pull the stick or trim it...is that normal in a FBW plane?

Yes I wonder about that as well.

I have to agree.

It's very difficult to slow down even with idle thrust.

Big pitch down tendency at slow speeds.

The energy chevrons jumping up and down during the approach, even with very gentle stick/ throttle inputs, combined that with the pitch down tendency it's difficult to place them at the AoA brackets.

I don't know ...

Now it has a tendency to pitch down at low speed (and not so slow) which forces me to constantly pull the stick or trim it...is that normal in a FBW plane?, I mean, I expect some nose down tendency at low speed but the few minutes I tested it it was quite strong...anyway, too soon to shape an correct idea of the whole change.

wheel drag, adjust trim

This maj is amazing ! Thanks a lot Razbam I was skeptical last weeks but now it's amazing. I love the ejection sequence ;)

What Harke is saying, use trim.

I find the new FM Really strange....

Strange is very subjective

I’ll be trying it out shortly. Very excite.

Strange is very subjective

It feels like a completely different aircraft now: the Mirage behaves VERY differently from what we are used to.

You need a LOT of trimming, not just during landing but also to maintain level flight at high altitude. Because of this, I assume:

- Updated FBW low speed behavior to be more AOA controlled, previously was pitch rate controlled. Gives more accurate response and behavior in low speed feels more like a standard aircraft.

Did a little bit of flying tonight, both clean and heavy loaded. Like it a lot. Hard to put into words, but its less digital, if that makes sense, more dynamic. I feel inertia's better, and its more fluid in its movement. Very slippery now though, but wasnt a big deal with landing, just prepared it a little earlier. Just have to think ahead a little, or you want be able to get enough speed off, and overshoot easily.

Had no problems with take off without AB with a full load. Felt very natural and intuitive.

Also keeping it steady even at very low speeds, sub 150kts, and circling, was no problem.

The only meh I have, is the forward stick required to get the nose down. Like if diving for AG attack. I guess its correct, but problem is we have the same deflection for/aft on our sticks, so its quite counter intuitive for me - a case where I'd wish we had the possibility to only adjust forward stick travel in the options.

Now it has a tendency to pitch down at low speed (and not so slow) which forces me to constantly pull the stick or trim it...is that normal in a FBW plane?, I mean, I expect some nose down tendency at low speed but the few minutes I tested it it was quite strong...anyway, too soon to shape an correct idea of the whole change.

+1

I've had to trim to keep nose from dipping too low. Also, dips and stays there when airbrakes are applied even at 300 knots.

Show me this in DCS

Wow... Big difference alright. Fantastic update. Looking forward to the write up Capt.

Hi guys. When I get home I'll write up the reasoning and the SOP that will make flying this guy how it was designed. Those changes are intended. Biggest change is that AP should be used heavily. It trims the aircraft for you as turning off AP or going into standby will maintain the trim from AP when you turned it off or went to standby. It takes a big thought change but is more realistic to how the system behaves. Apologies for not detailing earlier.

This is the post of the year, if not century, for me. I've been bitching a lot about my disappointments, especially in fm, lately. Not just here, but quite a few others aircrafts as well.

Fm being (functionally) as close to IRL as possible is the most important thing for me. Its a sim, and hence a core feature after all. And hearing that its intended and that you have reasoning behind it warms my cold bitter heart. I like the mentality behind heavy AP use.

Disclaimer: I'm just a random worthless random internet person and claim no special knowledge nor to be a Mirage pilot.

TL;DR:

Cant wait to read your reasoning and try out the fm changes!

Thx.

Show me this in DCS

Yes, I have been trying to reproduce that "free fall" (tail slide) about 9 seconds in the video and I couldn't do it...the plane always enters in a flat spin, it's like the nose doesn't have enough weight (it never drops down).

The handling now if much better at low speed and high AoA (no sudden mortal speed drops) and I could even make a high AoA pass at 90knt which was impossible before...also you can do whatever extreme maneuver you want at VERY low speed and the plane will forgive you in a very usual way (like many other planes) which also feels much closer to the real thing according to videos and such.

About the triming thing well, I know there is a hat botton in the plane for it :D, but I thought that being a FBW plane you shouldn't need to trim it unless you are willing to do so for whatever reason...now you MUST trim it at certain situations, like low speed, which forces you to "untrim" it at higher speeds to maintain flight level. Of course I'm not a M2000 pilot nor have any deep knowledge to say if its correct or not but I guess it is due to the numerous changes and newer documentation used to improve it so looking forward to the CptSmiley post for more details and coments from more saavy people.

Now the AP is mandatory to keep the Mirage trimed.

Waiting also for the detailed post from Capt Smiley!

From my limited knowledge, the M2k is designed to be flown with the autopilot engaged. In the front part of the stick is a trigger (autopilot standby on our keybindings) that is designed to be depressed

everytime the pilot graps the stick to make a roll/ pitch input. This disengages temporarily the autopilot, after the stick input is made and the trigger is released, the autopilot reengages and the plane is automatically trimmed. So you have to map the above mentioned key to your Hotas, engage the AP, depress the standby AP button and make the desired input, release the button and voila! I was also frustrated at first, but now it's impressive! Capt. Smiley must now describe the design and operating limitations of the system, i don't know if it's used the entire flight, even during dogfights.

Some others details, during landing, the throttle is moved to idle slowly at 50feet (combined with 2-3 short pitch up inputs to flare the aircraft), exactly as I have been told from real M2000 pilots. In the previous FM this would smash the airplane on the ground.

Now the AP is mandatory to keep the Mirage trimed.

I enabled AP and you are right, as CptSmiley said, it automatically trims the plane for you...problem is you have to enable and disable the AP if you want auto trim because it seems like AP does not auto-trim constantly as far as I have tried...(EDIT: Sniped by CptSmiley about AP)

Also, what about tail sliding?¿?¿? I can't manage to achieve it...any suggestions?

thanks!

problem is you have to enable and disable the AP if you want auto trim because it seems like AP does not auto-trim constantly as far as I have tried...

What do you mean? Like it only trims when turned on and then if you tell the AP to climb for instance and then turn the ap off it will not be set with trim?

Thanks for the info CptSmiley.

Fits good with how I understood with how it seems to be designedm like how the AP standby controls on the stick are grip activated. The new FM feels a lot more like how it looks to fly when seeing real videos. Again no pilot but this feels more intuitive and correct. Love it.

What do you mean? Like it only trims when turned on and then if you tell the AP to climb for instance and then turn the ap off it will not be set with trim?

I mean that AP will trim the plane ONCE when enabled, then, if you disable it or move the stick more than a certain angle (I don't remember what) so that the AP light goes to yellow, it won't trim the plane anymore unless you enable it again...however, using the standby button is the other way to use the AP so that you can push it when you're going to make a maneuver then when releasing it AP will ENABLE again and thus re-trim the plane.

Hope it's clear now :)

it would be great to have a "constant" auto-trim so that when you release the stick to center, it trims the plane but if its not in the real plane then is ok.