Enemy aircraft jamming

My suggestion is to make it consistent and represent it as AoJ like in everything else DCS.

 

Jamming behavior and countermeasures are not classified. There is a lot of material on ECM and ECCM out there.

 

Jamming capability and ECCM of specific equipment is classified, but often you can find out (or just assume) what techniques a given jammer uses and in some cases under what circumstances. It's not that hard, it's just a bit tedious and yes, requires a little bit of artistic license to implement.

How the radar interacts with a jammer is classified. because if you know how it works then you can counter it. The secret is not in the jammer, but in the radar. Same reason for the actual working of a RWR to be secret, you can only get generalities but not specifics. That is left to the imagination of the coder.

Likely, maybe not. Worth it - big time. It's a matter of someone developing the database of ECM and ECCM, and canned representation of ECM techniques - it also needs to properly affect missiles etc. It's a tedious task and it will require a bunch of tweaking after it is introduced, but that's it.

If ED built the framework for it, it could slowly be filled out with help from the community.

 

Of course, there would be an entirely new slew of people crying about whose ECM/ECCM should be better, too :)

Hmm, at this time ED has bigger fish to fry. They are working hard to get 2.5 out the gate, they are working on new maps, on new technology like AG radar, etc. So I believe that at this time new jamming capabilities/technology will be at the bottom of their priorities.

@Tharos: When I said "worth it" (or not), it was in the general DCS context.

Of course I agree this area of simulation is currently under-modelled and it would be worth enhancing it, all other things equal.

But as Zeus reminded us, lots of other projects exist. And I feel comfortable with the idea that, for the same amount of worktime, it's better to work on matters on which documentation/classification is less of an issue. :)

++

My suggestion is simply to make things consistent; whether you see false targets jumping around on the same AZ line or a solid like indicating AoJ, I guess it's up to you for sure.

An AoJ jammer does one thing and one thing only - deny the range. There's no reason to represent it as anything else IMHO specifically because of what you said: There's only the ECM on/off bit being transmitted.

How the radar interacts with a jammer is classified. because if you know how it works then you can counter it. The secret is not in the jammer, but in the radar. Same reason for the actual working of a RWR to be secret, you can only get generalities but not specifics. That is left to the imagination of the coder.

So, remove the fake targets and keep "only" the dashed line?

Personal opinion: why not, actually!

So, remove the fake targets and keep "only" the dashed line?

Personal opinion: why not, actually!

+1

So you want me to remove the fake targets?

So you want me to remove the fake targets?

Pls not, I like that feature.

Yes. IMHO reducing pilot-confusing clutter is a priority in any such system.

So you want me to remove the fake targets?

So you want me to remove the fake targets?

Hrm ... I wonder if these differen modes of jamming in DCS is a new(ish) feature of DCS:W. Consistency is good, but if that means that we will always have to resort to the bare minimum of options ... dunno, I don't really like that idea.

Which other aircraft actually make use of that "fake returns"-jamming flag?

I think it was very specifically created to represent jammers for the Su-27/MiG-29 radar.

That one looks like it's straight out of the texbook.

On the other hand, the F-15 figures out it's looking an AoJ contact and just presents you with the jamming strobe.

Which other aircraft actually make use of that "fake returns"-jamming flag?

Hrm ... I wonder if these differen modes of jamming in DCS is a new(ish) feature of DCS:W.

Don't think so.

I think Tharos is right, i.e. they exist for the russian FC radars i.e. from "the beginning" (LO) ;)

Hrm ... I wonder if these differen modes of jamming in DCS is a new(ish) feature of DCS:W. Consistency is good, but if that means that we will always have to resort to the bare minimum of options ... dunno, I don't really like that idea.

 

Which other aircraft actually make use of that "fake returns"-jamming flag?

I think having a bit more depth in the electronic warfare would be great but the way things work right now it might be better if for the time being things are more consistent. If some people like the false targets when they are being jammed then perhaps it can be one of the special options available in the Mirage 2000 specific settings. If the ECM mechanics in DCS become more sophisticated in the future this could be changed but for the time being it might be needlessly confusing for people who are trying to learn how to operate radar.

Indeed what we would like is that:

TBS provides a detailed sensor and electronic battlefield environment that also includes Electronic Attack (EA) systems (Barrage Noise and Deceptive Self Protection Jammers) chaff and flare countermeasures systems.

http://www.thebattlesim.com/new/aircraft_weapon_and_sensor_simulation/

:D

Very interesting discussion. Thanks everyone for participating.

 

P.S. I ended up ordering this book to understand radars and jamming a bit better: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017HXE81Y/ref=docs-os-doi_0

Might take some time to go through, but seems interesting.

 

Most good looking books about ECM seem to come with a hefty price tag, like this series: https://www.amazon.com/EW-104-Electronic-Warfare-Generation-ebook/dp/B010G7GJRE/

As someone who is actually working in the EW and ELINT field(My firm designs antennas for military and space applications), I can assure you that EW101/102/103/104 are the best and most easy to understand academic material on the subject. Since one can rarely afford such costly books, I used to sit in my department library during my intern days and now have 250 pages of short notes on virtually every EW/ELINT subject, be it antenna, scan patterns, emitter location, receiver type, jamming, decoys etc.

Anyone know the RDI's current burn through range against a jamming F-15C?