Does the F14 we get have IRST?

I'm getting a bit confused by different information I got from researching the bird, and just to be sure I thought I'd better ask.

Does the F14 that is being developed for us have IRST?

Nope, that's the F-14D.

It was also deactivated later in the F-14D's service life since it didn't prove real useful and the USN lost interest in maintaining it. I think that it would be a helpful sensor under the right circumstances.

The very early F-14A (like 1st cruise on Enterprise in 1974-75) had an experimental system on many of the aircraft. This aircraft has it, it resembles the TCS or bullet fairing, but is more spherical and the sensor is very dark/black:

It wasn't used again until the F-14D received the improved version.

-Nick

Nope, that's the F-14D.

 

It was also deactivated later in the F-14D's service life since it didn't prove real useful and the USN lost interest in maintaining it. I think that it would be a helpful sensor under the right circumstances.

 

The very early F-14A (like 1st cruise on Enterprise in 1974-75) had an experimental system on many of the aircraft. This aircraft has it, it resembles the TCS or bullet fairing, but is more spherical and the sensor is very dark/black:

 

 

It wasn't used again until the F-14D received the improved version.

 

-Nick

I have completely different info. The IRST on the F-14D was very useful and relied upon as it matured-to the point of pilots relying too much on it. This is why the exact system was updated slightly and seen important enough to mount on the SuperBugs external tank. Early on the system was a grey fairing since it wasn't ready yet, but the IRST gave the F-14D unique capabilities. Once the Tomcat was viewed as retired from Anti-air service and used primarily as a bomber- the system saw little use only because its wavelengths were set for Air to air use- hot motor/airframe against a cold sky. LANTIRN/SNIPER use a completely different wavelength to effectively track ground targets and really only use their TV trackers and shorter range IR spotters for air to air. Therefore the IRST was not needed or used once the F-14D started hauling bombs 100% of the time.

The IRST on the 1994ish F-14D made it effective against radar stealth aircraft as long as their exhaust plume was detectable. It gave bearing and azimuth info- a system like that today with a good onboard computer could calculate range against a known set of targets and allow active radar missiles to launch and get mid course guidance solely from the IRST. Don't know if any operational jets use it that way but its entirely possible.

The F-14A and F-14B we will get has the TCS which will be great fun to use.

I have completely different info. The IRST on the F-14D was very useful and relied upon as it matured-to the point of pilots relying too much on it. This is why the exact system was updated slightly and seen important enough to mount on the SuperBugs external tank. Early on the system was a grey fairing since it wasn't ready yet, but the IRST gave the F-14D unique capabilities. Once the Tomcat was viewed as retired from Anti-air service and used primarily as a bomber- the system saw little use only because its wavelengths were set for Air to air use- hot motor/airframe against a cold sky. LANTIRN/SNIPER use a completely different wavelength to effectively track ground targets and really only use their TV trackers and shorter range IR spotters for air to air. Therefore the IRST was not needed or used once the F-14D started hauling bombs 100% of the time.

The IRST on the 1994ish F-14D made it effective against radar stealth aircraft as long as their exhaust plume was detectable. It gave bearing and azimuth info- a system like that today with a good onboard computer could calculate range against a known set of targets and allow active radar missiles to launch and get mid course guidance solely from the IRST. Don't know if any operational jets use it that way but its entirely possible.

The F-14A and F-14B we will get has the TCS which will be great fun to use.

Well, isn't that the same view? We both said it was of little value once the F-14D became prioritized in the strike role, hence it was not maintained.

I agree that the system is helpful for A-A against stealthy targets or during periods of EMCON - but it was often used to complement other systems or EW. That's what I've heard.

I didn't realize that a similar system has been integrated into the Super Hornet - that's interesting. :)

-Nick

Okay cool!

I should do my research on the TCS, I don't really know how it works yet.

Well, isn't that the same view? We both said it was of little value once the F-14D became prioritized in the strike role, hence it was not maintained.

 

I agree that the system is helpful for A-A against stealthy targets or during periods of EMCON - but it was often used to complement other systems or EW. That's what I've heard.

 

I didn't realize that a similar system has been integrated into the Super Hornet - that's interesting. :)

 

-Nick

Only point I wanted to clarify was that if you were flying air defence/escort/kill jets, it spoiled the pilots and was used a lot. We tend to gloss over the non-OIF/OEF time period in its life but man those were the glory days, once the g-restrictions from shavings in the wing pivot were solved and the afterburner liner problem with the F-110 was fixed you couldn't touch an F-14D in Air to Air.

Only point I wanted to clarify was that if you were flying air defence/escort/kill jets, it spoiled the pilots and was used a lot. We tend to gloss over the non-OIF/OEF time period in its life but man those were the glory days, once the g-restrictions from shavings in the wing pivot were solved and the afterburner liner problem with the F-110 was fixed you couldn't touch an F-14D in Air to Air.

That's fair, I didn't know that much that phase of IRST. I'm glad to hear that it performed as advertised. As always, I appreciate the info. :)

Yeah, the F-14D was such a brutally capable A-A platform. Amazing that they crammed so much capability in to one airframe.

-Nick

Such a shame the USN weren't allowed to keep it :( I've read that ever since its' retirement the CVs lost a lot of the striking capability they would've otherwise had.

Ret. Adm. Paul Gilcrist

"The F/A-18E has been improved but still has, at best, 50% of the F-14D's capability to deliver a fixed number of bombs (in pounds) on target. This naturally means that the carrier radius influence drops to 50% of what it would have been with the same number of F-14Ds. As a result, the area of influence (not radius) drops by 23%. No wonder the Navy is working on "buddy tanker" versions of the Super Hornet."

How many bombs can the F14 haul in a single run Max?

The F/A-18 can like 8

This amount of bombs won't work for a carrier takeoff probably, but just as a question.

4 max under the belly (I think)

Ret. Adm. Gilcrist is abit more specific in this qoute:

"Assuming the use of S-3 tankers, an F-14D strike, refueling somewhere between Quetta and Sukkur, Pakistan, wouldn't have any trouble attacking targets in northern most Afghanistan. If however, an F/A-18 E/F refuels in the same spot, it will barely make it to Kabul. The unrefueled radius of an F-14D carrying normal strike load (4 2,000lb LGBs, 2 Phoenix missiles and two Sidewinders plus 675 rounds of 20mm and two 280 gallon external tanks) is at least 500 statute miles. Accompanying E/F Super Hornets have only a 350 statute mile radius carrying about half the bomb load."

4 max under the belly (I think)

Lolwut?

Oh snap! I didn't think it could hold mk82's

Lolwut?

 

We can probably fit just as many GBU-12's there.

Just push a little harder!

It'll fit.

The operational bombcat was a cost effective solution. The 13 Mk-82s carried under the belly in the 1970s was a carry test only for the Marines purposes- it wasn't even thought of as an A-6 replacement at the time. When the bombs were carried like that they didn't separate well and the airflow would cause the Mk-82 to stay "flying" with the airframe. that's why you see the extension on the Phoenix pallets- its only to ensure clean separation. You can do a google search and find a patent for a new F-14 pallet that carries many more bombs plus probably more fuel or jamming equipment. That space if funded and developed could have made the F-14 a very effective jammer (EF-111 type), bomber (match the F-15 payload), and possibly tanker(a fuel and hose system pallet in the tunnel wouldn't have been a difficult design). Of course, the F-14 was designed with cold war mentality towards maintenance and you just cant launch or catch them as fast as Super Hornets because of the size and weight, but you would have a much longer ranged and capable jet.

see here for an idea https://www.google.com/patents/US5476238?dq=F-14+weapon+patent&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CE0Q6AEwB2oVChMIwOGkpYP9yAIVVOpjCh2GzAXM

The F-14 could also carry 4x 2,000 lbs JDAMs or 4x 1,000 lbs GBU-16's.

sure would be cool to get the IRST variant..

: /

sure would be cool to get the IRST variant..

 

: /

For me, getting the LANTIRN and guided bombs is more important than IRST.

IRST is fun and cool, but I don't "need" it as much.

sure would be cool to get the IRST variant.. : /

How so? The old IRST was installed on early F-14A's (apparently it was deemed of limited use so was relatively quickly removed from service IIRC), while the new IRST was installed on the F-14D's only. Since the LN mentioned that their F-14A might be from the mid 80's or so and the F-14B from the early or mid 90's IIRC, I don't see IRST as a viable option.

The TCS seems far more useful than that old IRST anyway for intercept missions.

How so? The old IRST was installed on early F-14A's (apparently it was deemed of limited use so was relatively quickly removed from service IIRC), while the new IRST was installed on the F-14D's only. Since the LN mentioned that their F-14A might be from the mid 80's or so and the F-14B from the early or mid 90's IIRC, I don't see IRST as a viable option.

 

The TCS seems far more useful than that old IRST anyway for intercept missions.

How do you think about this LANTIRN tgp?

I seriously hope LN puts it in, but I'm not sure if they were there already in early to mid 90's

They've said they are going for a typical 1980's F-14A and a 1990's F-14B. I expect it will be TCS instead of IRST.

TCS will be great - looking fwd to it

but just sayin.. a delta w/ IRST would be...... *sweet*

They've said they are going for a typical 1980's F-14A and a 1990's F-14B. I expect it will be TCS instead of IRST.

Yeah and TGP,

TGP.

I am quite curious whether this is going to be in or not.

Guess we'll figure upon release.

The old F-14A in the early-mid 1980s had more of an IRS than an IRST- not nearly as capable. The F-14D would need a separate build as its avionics are more demanding to simulate.

Not much chance of IRS/IRST on our -A, sorry!