Whiskey11

Even if Pershing and Nike Zeus and other Nike versions weren't FUNCTIONAL, their bases were key bases in West Germany and were notable landmarks. It'd be incomplete without it and the other sites... also... ANY East vs West German border map is going to be a SAM NIGHTMARE depending on the era chosen... certainly a modern conflict is very... err... out of place given the reunification but nothing is saying you couldn't "role play" it. Regardless, if those images aren't just some assets plunked onto the Channel Map and we are getting a Fulda/East vs West German conflict map, I'll be happy.

Everyone is focused on the aircraft and tanks of a 80s WWIII scenario and In over here crying because the SA-4, early variants of the SA-2, SA-3, and SA-7 are all missing on the REDFOR side and Nike (All variants), Pershing MRBM, and a bunch of BLUFOR SAM systems are missing... as are a HUGE number of their associated EW and IFF radars... Fulda excites me greatly because of the potential history we didn't get... but SAM technology would need to improve DRASTICALLY to make it even close to realistic... or enough to suspend disbelief.

While I don't have hard data available right now (at work), the AIM54 had radar fallback modes which allowed it to continue to guide on reflections from the AWG-9 even if the active seeker lost the lock. Since the AIM120A was effectively a smaller, digitized AIM54C (hence why TWS modes were tested on the F-14A), I'd be shocked if the AIM120C7 didn't have some sort of launching aircraft radar fallback mode in case the missile lost lock with its own seeker.

Yup, and I've given up trying to use the ED model, mostly because I've run out of ways to try and get the animation to work correctly. It works as a sensor, it tracks across the sky and it oscillates the dish, but it's pretty janky and the tracking is inverted for some reason...

The way DCS SAM sites work is EACH site requires the appropriate search radar(s) and track radars IN the group. The S-300PS in game requires, at a minimum, the Flap Lid (truck or mast) and either the Big Bird or mast Tin Shield (trailer one from the S-200 doesn't work). If you don't have either the mast mounted Tin Shield or the Big Bird in the group, you'll get strange behavior like the site sometimes working if the aircraft falls within the search envelope of the Flap Lid, but not the Clam Shell. Hopefully ED will give us more realistic IADS behavior so we don't have those dependencies and we can more accurately represent how those units are deployed IRL.

Are you on main power when engaging it? Used to not be able to engage it without power being on in the jet.

So it's the ED PRV-11 from the Caucuses. It can be found in <your DCS install>/bazar/world/shapes/prw-11.edm. Animation Argument 7 is the radar dish up and down movement. Animation Argument 8 is the base rotation. Animation Argument 7 -1 position is all the way down and 0 is neutral and +1 is all the way up Animation Argument 8 -1 position is -180 degrees of rotation (so rotated to the left 180 degrees) and +1 is +180 degrees of rotation (rotated to the right 180 degrees) Those are the default built in arguments. Because it's an ED EDM, I'm not sure there is a way to import this into a model viewer to tweak the animation arguments (that was my first thought for fixing the radar dish articulation "glitch")... not one I've found, but I'm also not a 3D modeler (hence using ED's model). I'm REALLY perplexed by the inverted tracking though. You can literally put this next to my modded SA-5 Square Pair and watch them track the same target. The Square Pair is right on the target, but the Side Net is mirrored the Square Pair.

Getting closer! Managed to get it to track targets in rotation about the base by effectively turning it into a Square Pair with no missile tracking channels. I added it to my modded SA-5 for testing purposes... however... the tracking of targets laterally has the animation backwards... If the target is going left to right across the screen, the radar tracks it right to left. I haven't messed with any of the sensor data because honestly, none of that matters until it is animated correctly anyway. So animations continue to be an issue. =\

Syria has a lot of SAM sites modeled... some better than others. For instance, the Homs SA-5 exists... but it's wildly inaccurate compared to the real site. There is an SA-2 site west of Tabqa which never existed IRL... Those are two easy examples.

Greetings all, I decided to try and hijack ED's lovely 3D model for the PRV-11 Side Net from the Caucuses and implement it into DCS World. This is an early build, and I'm only releasing it because I think you all might be able to help me. BUT, lets talk about where we are at. The PRV-11 Side Net is a height finding radar commonly associated with the SA-2 and SA-3. It was also usable with the SA-5, although they preferred more modern Height Finders like the PRV-13 or PRV-17. P-14 in the background is the P-14 mod: Link to the P-14 Mod So what does this "Alpha" build include? A very basic sensor based upon the P-14 mod's code. The height finder is animated, but the animation is "bugged" in the sense it cycles from all the way up to down just fine, but then jumps from all the way down to all the way up. Looks a little janky. The sensor itself cannot pivot (yet) in azimuth without using scripting (Argument 8 is the azimuth, Argument 7 is the height finder radar's angle). The sensor is also "all seeing" in that it currently has 360 degree coverage as I have not figured out how to get it to actually track onto a target as you'd expect... still a WIP Alpha build. Things to Do: 1.) Fix the animations 2.) Set it to track in azimuth whatever target the track radar is looking at. 3.) Fix the sensor so it has a fixed beam width and can't see where the radar dish isn't pointed at. 4.) Associate it with the modded SA-5 (Link) and work on modded versions of the SA-2 and SA-3 How YOU can help: If you know how to address some of the above issues, I'm all ears so I can get this working! The animation argument for the PRV-11 is set to "locator_rotation" which seems to at least animate the dish. I've tried others and have been unsuccessful. The only things I've seen with oscillating radar dishes like this is the RSP-7 Soviet Airfield Approach Truck, similarly buried in ED's Caucuses code, and one of the Forrestal's radars... sadly, the later is tied into an animation argument which moves ALL radars and the specific radar itself is coded so both -1 and 1 on the model viewer are in the same spot to avoid the animation glitching problem the PRV-11 has... I might have a lead on #2 using the SN-75 Amazonka Height Finder radar with the SA-2 in game, but need to do some searching first. #4 is easy. #3 is a bit more complicated. Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks! PRV-11 Side Net.zip

Any updates on this bug (slope sensitivity of the Big Bird) being fixed internally yet? As much as I love the Tin Shield, and I do love me some Tin Shield, it'd be nice not to have to redo an entire DCS Liberation template file to use it over the Big Bird.

I can't provide any additional tracks at the moment, but I've noticed when I'm using Skynet, that search radars are also not losing LOS. I have a Skynet enabled mission using vanilla SAM sites and radars and while the radars fall off the RWR, the Skynet script is still showing my jet, flying through the Caucus mountains down low, as a target with a "last seen" time of zero seconds. Normally I'd point directly at Skynet and say it's a Skynet issue, but between the issues with the SA-2 and other SAMs, and vehicles being able to see through and shoot through trees, I wonder if this isn't an issue with DCS core and the script is only showing the symptoms. I'll try and get a quick track for you guys. EDIT: Uploaded a track where a 55G6 is able to see me deep in a valley on Caucus. EWRGodTierSA.trk

Ahh, Skynet is a script you use in the mission editor... I'd recommend reading up on it and its use as it can be quite daunting to implement. Wheelyjoe's IADS script is a bit easier to implement in a mission but is far more basic.

My version of Skynet is a super experimental branch which involves some advanced functionality (things like the ActMobile branch, and fixed jammer tables). I have no problem sharing it, but understand that I haven't addressed the AI switching behavior issue that has been fixed by folks over on the Skynet discord... which means it may not correctly update emission states while a SAM site is active and the change occurs. skynet-iads-compiled-actMobileMerged.lua

There are certain aspects of the game which are hardcoded behaviors that I'm not sure we can change. You might be able to accomplish it with Skynet and forcing the engagement range to be longer, but the launch/range window is determined by DCS and when the SAM site thinks it has the highest PK. This mod increased the engagement range to about 80nmi or so over the about 55-65nmi before. I'll have to look into the LUA to see if there is a way to increase that further.

I appreciate you taking it up with the team. If possible, is the documentation they are using available publicly somewhere or could you provide the name? I'm always curious to learn more about these systems, how they were used, etc. The German book was of great curiosity to myself and another who built the entire Soviet Era IADS on Google Earth. I share a little bit of the skepticism with putting a missile in the flight path of an ARM the Flap Lid can't even see. I'm not sure the Clam Shell could detect it given the altitude an ARM is typically fired at and the emphasis on low altitude detection of cruise missiles and jets. I don't know about the Tin Shield seeing it either, maybe the Big Bird could but that kind of detection is traditionally outside the expected use of those systems given the long wavelengths for longer range detection. Sure, hypothetical a command guided launch could put a missile there, but how would it know its even coming in or roughly where to put it. That's why I'm curious about the documentation. As for the scripting in DCS, I use Skynet anytime a SAM is in a mission to create that behavior and many other ones. It would be nice, hint hint, if DCS had some of that natively without scripting or triggers! If you need a certified psychopathic SAM site rivet counter to help test, I'll gladly put the time in.

Both the 54A and the 54C should guide onto the extrapolated tracks.... BUT They presently are NOT guiding on extrapolated tracks if the loss of lock happens even if the target reappears "near" the ghost track... The missile just continues it's loft until it reaches Low Earth Orbit. This is most noticeable when the AIM-54 is in the MBAM... while in the mid course, I've had maybe 10% luck in getting a guide on the extrapolated track. Further, I've had the AWG-9 lose a track, the enemy jet not maneuver, and it still does not correlate the track files correctly even though the X'd out track is directly on top of the "new" track for the same target. This, even for a 1960's radar set, seems odd if it actually has a track correlation capability.

If you are feeling froggy, the barrel bloomers at the base of the barrels where they meet the turret are black IRL and not white... even in WWII... this is a problem of people using Wargaming's USS Iowa model as the basis for things (and this is, for sure, their model as the real USS Iowa never had twin 40mm Bofors... only quads, and WG had a habit of taking the first hull of any US Battleship and removing the quads they set sail with and making them twins...). I fought a nearly three year long war with WG showing historical photo after historical photo on this before they finally changed all of the US Fast Battleships to have the correct gun barrel bloomers...

Can you please have someone from your team look at the following book (in German only, sadly): Der Fla-Raketenkomplex S-300PMU in der NVA" by Bernd Biedermann, Juergen Gebbert, and Wolfgang Kerner In the book, written by some East Germans trained on the system, they say the Flap Lid B of the S-300PMU could not engage targets with RCS less than 0.2m^2 which is way bigger than a HARM RCS. And that makes sense given that the original design parameters for the S-300PS/PT was to be able to engage the low flying cruise missiles of the era (late 70s and early 80s), which were massive. I'm not convinced the S-300PS could engage HARM even under ideal conditions. This seems to be playing out in real life in which both sides struggle(d) to engage incoming ARMs during the conflict. Heck, more modern systems struggle to engage HIMARS M31 GMLRS rounds which are about the same diameter and slightly shorter than a HARM.

My only complaint with using remove scenery objects is that it doesn't fix the elevation issues with the radars... yes, 2SAP will fix that, but not everyone runs 2SAP... I use it extensively... I also use the 107th Modded version of the SA-5 which has the P-14 Tall King mod as a usable search radar. Mods, until ED gets us a content management setup on server connection, are a bit difficult to work around if not everyone is up to speed on them.

When the F14 loses an AIM7 lock the flood antenna moves along the VSL HI/VSL LO searches in sequence... so it's possible it got on the flood mode. I'm working this weekend, so it'll be next week before I can do any testing, but I'll try to. If you run the test again and turn completely away, does it still guide? I'm aware the R27R is not an ET, I was implying there might be an issue with R27's in general since the ET I got hit with went through 2/3rds my flare loadout while my own AIM9's get flared off with a few flares.

The F-14 one is easy enough to explain... the F-14 will default to a Flood mode if lock is dropped after launch of an AIM-7. Flood mode is a degraded guidance mode in which the AWG-9 just spams radar out in front of the F-14 along the datumline (the cross in the hud). There is also the possibility of the aircraft you were flying against using ECM and having it operate in HOJ. I've had HOJ hit jamming targets as far as 32nmi away. Pretty sneaky! The second one is confusing if you weren't using ECM in any way... then again, I had an R-27ET track through 34 flares and me diving for the ground, so maybe there is something up with missile guidance. A bug report usually works best if you can replicate the issue and post a track (not a Tacview, a track file).

Over in the S-300 Pack (Over in the SAM Site Asset Pack thread) discussion, I released a modified entry.lua which disabled the HDSM S-300's (but kept the expanded SA-2, SA-3, SA-17, and MANPADS) because the S-300 Pack was actively being worked on while HDSM wasn't. I haven't checked over there to see if the S-300 Pack has updated to match the recent changes in HDSM's S-300's, but that's always a solution to this problem since the S-300 Pack was designed to work with the S-400 whereas HDSM wasn't... It'd be nice if the two projects would merge since it shares developers to avoid these problems of using "the most current" S-300 codes lol.

I found two problems with this particular mission file: 1.) Your configuration file for the IADS has it looking for the prefix "SAM" when everything is named "ISAM" 2.) The reason they are all autonomous when you change the above is because the 1L119 Nebo-SVU is not supported by the default Skynet configuration. In fact, none of the SAM Site Asset Pack radars are. The following can be added to your skynet-iads-compiled.lua (I recommend changing the file name to skynet-iads-compiled-modified.lua or something so you can keep them separate. I would add it before line 444 (after the default list of EWR's): --- Start of 2SAP & Radar Dome Mod EW radars, and P-14 Mod ['EWR P-37 Bar Lock'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['EWR P-37 BAR LOCK'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Bar Lock', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 60 }, ['EWR 55G6U NEBO-U'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['EWR 55G6U NEBO-U'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Tall Rack', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 65 }, ['EWR 1L119 Nebo-SVU'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['EWR 1L119 Nebo-SVU'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Box Spring', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 75 }, ['EWR Generic radar tower'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['EWR Generic radar tower'] = { }, }, ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'EWR Generic radar tower', }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 60 }, ['RadarDomeH'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['RadarDomeH'] = { }, }, ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'RadarDomeH', }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 60 }, ['RadarDomeL'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['RadarDomeL'] = { }, }, ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'RadarDomeL', }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 60 }, ['FPS-117'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['FPS-117'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Seek Igloo', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 80 }, ['FPS-117 Dome'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['FPS-117 Dome'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Seek Igloo Domed', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 80 }, ['EWR P-14 Tall King'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['EWR P-14 Tall King'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Tall King', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 60 }, Make sure to keep Line 444's closing }, so add it before that! That'll add the SAM Site Asset Pack radars to your Skynet Compiled and allow them to work. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you guys (a month late, Ooof!) I don't regularly check this thread (mostly supporting folks over on the discord), so if you reply, make sure to tag me or reply directly to me so I get the notification.

There was an issue, which I don't think has been fixed yet, with the FPS-117 Domed in the Skynet Compiled file. If you open the skynet-iads-compiled.lua file in Notepad++ or your choice of scripting platform. Find the FPS-117 Dome section (might not exist, find the FPS-117 if it doesn't then add the following code below it) and make sure it looks like this: ['FPS-117 Dome'] = { ['type'] = 'ewr', ['searchRadar'] = { ['FPS-117 Dome'] = { ['name'] = { ['NATO'] = 'Seek Igloo Domed', }, }, }, ['harm_detection_chance'] = 80 }, That should get the FPS-117 Domed to work.