Sunjah

Agree totally on both fronts!

I hope it is the F/A-18, and it was hinted at during an interview, something about definitely being an American fighter, and relating to a flying insect. Falcon, Raptor, Lighting II, none of them fit, but it is my understanding that there is no way it could be the E version, as they will only do things that they can completely simulate, so I am hoping it is the F/A-18 C, and with carrier ops (I just don't like that Russian carrier, or really that plane either).

PLEASE relax. My profession is to educate young children, the mass majority of who have been ages 9 & 10. I estimate that I have taught a full year of education to somewhere between 250-300 10 year olds, and have worked with many other kids in educational or extra-curricular activities. You make three extremely sarcastic suggestions, and then tell everyone else they are acting like a 7 year old. People hear better when you speak to them, that is probably the biggest lesson I have learned in my 13 years of classroom education. I was frustrated, voiced my frustration, which led to many insults (some of which I insinuated and should not have), but it really isn't that a big of a deal. Relax. I disagree with not stating what the plane is. Many others do. Many do not and feel those who disagree are screaming out about undue entitlement. It is a 'wishlist', but anything that goes on 2 years obviously changes into something else, more of a rumor, to then fact type situation. That is why people keep coming back here to check, it is an important topic to them. It really did loose it's "wish list" state a long time ago in my view. Unfortunately, the makers of these games seem quite content in frustrating people by keeping their mouths closed. I disagree that it alienates more people to change plans than to not announce them, but that is okay, it is my view. Obviously you are frustrated here too. It really isn't worth it, and I regret getting as frustrated as I did. We'll know when we know, but personally I wish I felt more "cared about" by this company than I do. Do they owe it? No. That doesn't change the fact that is how I fell at present. I know it sounds silly, but yes, it would make a world of difference to me if I knew the next aircraft would be a hornet with carrier ops. It would be tremendous for me, for personal reasons, but can we please just stop with the flipping out and attacking people?

Will you just stop. You stated something directed at me personally, you were wrong (never felt any entitlement, just frustration), and now you will do everything you can to justify it. YOU are blaming me for your inferences; not my fault, dude. We disagree. Game over. You won. You are right. Keep going (with life, not this pointless continuing of insults). SOBEK: As I said, you had a lot of points I am reading and thinking "Ok", and then you insult me for three straight comments. You are not ED, you are not DCS, but you feel I insult them, so you can insult me. Go back and read it from a neutral point of view, I think you'll see (because for some reason, both of you are seeming to put ideas/concepts into my arguments that are not, nor ever have been, there...so just look at it from a view that doesn't see every statement justified as a "he deserves it" standpoint). I was frustrated, voiced my frustration, stated my disagreement with the process of how the DCS is handled (a "we will tell you what we want, and when we want, period" hmm, sounds familiar). Now there have been many false statements telling me I refuse to see any point but my own. Enough. I want the F/A-18E Super Hornet. I think a 20 month thread is just ridiculous with no information. Some of the stuff this company makes are quality, but there is an "Us first" that permeates throughout, which is only reenforced by this whole situation in this thread. (of course, if it is something legal that restricts them, that would be totally different, and if that is the case, why not say WE CANNOT TELL?) Seriously, just give the insulting a rest.

Would it be possible for you to show me once where I "DEMANDED" anything? By the state or your argument (yes, you are the one arguing, because you keep attacking me personally, something I have never done in this current line of posts), any statement that seems to insinuate that ED could do things differently or more positively is automatically a reason for that statement to be wrong, and the stater attacked. I stated opinions, which is far from demanding...go back and read, dude, I never said anyone had to do anything, but there is no question I think this is a bad marketing strategy. TO SOBEK: I was reading your points, and it is not that I don't see the other side to the argument, I absolutely do, I just think it does more harm then the "keeping informed side", and then as I am reading your points, I noticed three straight thoughts that attacked me personally. NOT to sobek (but to anyone who feels like reading, including sobek): I know people here like to polarize, hey, cool, go to it, but I was stating an opinion of frustration and disagreement with the current state. Now it is attack after attack. *I never stated that I have entitlement; *I disagree completely in how DCS is handled from the producers (a simple yes or no once would have saved me about $120 from copying the Black Shark manual, but WAGS decided he was too good to be bothered writing back to a PM with a single word; I got the entire thing printed; and then they printed it out and charged; My question, "Was there even a POSSIBILITY that it could be printed?" No answer (ignored is more like it), so I printed it, and a few weeks later WAGS announces the printing...thanks, appreciate that (especially because printed instructions should come with a game to begin with); *Aren't we supposed to share opinions and discuss matters here? *The "overly" defensive attitude here raises some incredible (proverbial) eyebrows. Why is there so much of a quick attack in the responses. If you disagree, fine, but the second response I receive starts with the "You; You're; Your; it's all about you" crap. Enough already. We disagree. If I have made any statement directly attacking you, it was not meant and I honestly don't know you got that...but keep going if you want to. *I had an f/a-18 simulator as one of the first games I ever played. I would love a current one. If I knew it was coming, I would be happy. Having a thread open for almost 2years with no answers, well, that seems a bit silly (very silly, actually). *You won. *You are right, keep going!

HA! That was really Funny!:)

I understand what your first part is stating, but anyone who is going to do that is going to find fault/get angry at something anyway. I do not think I really agree with that. Withholding information so that people do not say "But you promised us this, and this, and that..." Honestly, people are going to do that anyway, people from a certain section. Your second part may be true, but I do not understand why someone would enter into a contract that would be so restrictive and binding. The whole thing seems counterproductive to me. I do not demand anything; I will not scream out if something is not delivered on, but as I stated, this thread is near 2 years old and there still is not an answer. That is not a good way to "get along with your community" in my opinion. I think this sums up my whole point. The whole industry does not seem to work like this; Blizzard will not set a date, but we have KNOWN for 3 years about Diablo 3. I especially think AGG nails it in his last statement. This is a niche market, so why alienate the true fans you have by "playing games" like this. GGTharos and Eddie, there was not intent to make this line of statements a personal front for something against either of you, but your tones are very curt and angry. I think the people at DCS make a huge mistake not treating members of their community better. For me, I do not think complete subservience is the answer, but you can go that way if you feel it is. I love Black Shark, though I would much rather have American aircrafts, and the A-10 was already in the Flaming Cliffs/Lock-On stuff. I would like a AH-64/D Longbow and an F/A-18C (or E) carrier based Super Hornet. If either of those are going to be made, I, as a customer, would have felt INTENSELY better sitting and waiting for them then checking a thread every so often that is almost 2 years old and reading, "Well, they haven't announced it yet, but when they do..." There is no entitlement, I just simply think a niche market product does itself and everyone involved a disservice when they alienate the consumers trying to be loyal patrons of their business. Alienation; subservience; justification; they all seems to smack pretty hard of "silly games" in my book. Just freaking explain your plans, then if plans change state that plans have changed. It is called a line of communication.

Well, if that is true, then why state how you want to work with a community, but then refuse to give out the information that the entire community would like to know? Are you saying that is not hypocritical? Anyone who has an "It is done when I/we say so" is going to alienate people. You cannot have it both ways, whichever is convenient for you at that moment. If they do care of the community, then it seems highly counter-productive to keep this game continuing...and it is a game that is being played. What possible harm could it do to say "We are working on "X" plane"? Instead, we get information saying that a game will be released 1st half of 2012, and the other game is being done concurrently, so that obviously means they are working on it now. I see no way that could be harmful, yet it would be very helpful to just say F/A-18C (or whatever it ends up being). I'm not trying to jump down your throat, but this thread was started fairly close to 2 years ago. Is not that a ridiculously long time to keep people waiting. No one is demanding a release date, but almost 2 years of "Why should we bother to speak about it" shows a real lack of respect to the consumer/gamer.

Any chance we could stop this "kiddie" game and actually just tell us what the aircraft is? Honestly, this is one of the most ridiculous jokes I have ever seen...a press release saying that a developer wants to work with a community, yet won't even explain what the next product is. It is obvious that DCS knows, so if you care about your community, say what the next American fixed-wing aircraft is. All you do by withholding this information is make people angry and frustrated!

Wow, sorry. It was a very bad point in my life and I was not trying to be rude, just seemed like (well, actually was) everything in my life falling apart. Sorry, Duders!

Darn, how did I know that NO ONE would ever post here again.

Ps- I should have started my thread above by saying "Guaranteed to be moved within 24 hours" (though I had NO desire to have it anywhere but the GENERAL DISCUSSION thread, if I did, I would have made it in the other thread. How is discussing the confusing elements of a general message in a forum NOT a general discussion about said forum? Don't answer, because it is, maybe you need to be a little less obsessive with your judgements) There were 3 responses besides mine. I can pretty well guarantee it will stay right around that number for the rest of its life. Put it back in the General Discussion, and I can guarantee many posts on it. Not sure who it is doing this, but it is a pretty "Rudely" run forum. ...and WAGS, who did read my e-mail several months back but never bothered to answer in any way, you might want to work on public relations skills. Since that happened, I pretty much stopped coming to this forum, and only posted this thread because of how absurdly silly that notice was in the general discussion area.

I do not mind abbreviations at all, but people use them SO OFTEN without knowing that the reader has any idea of what it is. I use abbreviations, but I have tried to be in the habit of always stating it once, then referring as an abbreviation for the rest of what I write. Honestly, it took me a bit to catch on to OT meaning Off-topic, which is kind of a pain trying to make sense of something that is crucial to the meaning of the message when you don't know it. When I see OT, I think Over-time, so to me, an "Over-time post" had absolutely no credible meaning. Yes, I think a good majority of the world is that bad. The laziness which is not only allowed, but often accepted and encouraged, is absolutely and thouroughly 100% an embarrassment to our species. "Let me abbreviate so that the person will have no idea what my post means, so therefore I should never have written it to begin with." That is a very bad mentality. That "Problem with X-52" wasn't the post I meant that was moved, this was before I had the x-52 and wanted opinions on it. I thought it was quite rude to move it, as I said, no one commented once it was moved. That was the exact reason I did not put it in the other "technical" discussion thread to begin with...if I had wanted it there, I would've put it there, just as if I want my meaning to be understood, I explain what I am talking about instead of taking shortcuts that make it difficult or impossible to understand what my meaning is at that time. There was an acronym being used on the BioWare boards about the game of Knights of the Old Republic. I can't remember what it was, but they were talking about something with the game, and it took me about 3 months to find out what it meant. I actually put up question threads about it, and many of the responses were, "I'm really not sure." Finally, someone who knew answered. None of that would have happened if the poster had SAID (or written) what he was talking about. I understand your view (to an extent), but it is kind of like driving and suddenly you are behind someone who is swerving a little, going WAY UNDER the speed limit, and making no attempt to adjust for anyone else on the road but themselves. I have found that over 90% of the time, it is someone on a cell phone. They are so obsessed with themselves and their call, nothing and nobody else matters. You have had that happen to you, too, haven't you? A LOT of these things are great, but people seem to think that because they have them, others don't really matter anymore. Such as the 3 months trying to find that acronym out several years ago. If the guy wrote it out, that search never would have happened. I suppose I just have a real resentment to the laziness that people try to justify. There is a LOT of it that did not used to exist.

That was a good one, made me laugh!!!

So we are in for some {O}ver{t}ime. Or maybe some {O}ptical {T}echnology. Perhaps a little {O}ccupational {T}herapy. Let's see, it could be Optimal Time, Overt Transition, hmm, maybe Optimus' Primes brother Optimus Terrence? Hey, wait, I've got it. It means "On-Topic," but then it goes on to say that OT posts are banned. Hmm, must have post be not "on-topic." My math skills would tell me that means it should be a "not-topic" post. Is English really that rough? People think because they write an acronym, everyone will know it. The memo above the topics listed as an "announcement" refers to "OFF-TOPIC" posts (that is what the OT stands for). Our species has some downfalls, and lately the Internet has made everyone think that (well, and cell phones/blackberries/etc.) they don't need to speak english, people will understand a two letter abbreviation means exactly what is in their head. SPEAK, people, SPEAK (or in this case, WRITE). I had a post that was purely, specifically, completely and positively 100% meant for this general forum. Yes, it had to do with controllers, but this is where I wanted it and put it, yet it was moved less than a day later. Before it was moved, I received some 6-8 comments, after it was moved, I received none. Hmm, there was a reason I didn't move it somewhere else, and so sure enough it might as well have been trashed once it was moved, as it had not responses. Doesn't "general discussion" mean: A discussion that is in someway related to the main topic of discussion? That would mean if it is related to DCS or Black Shark, it should work.

How is the announcement of the patch going to be handled? The reason I ask is that I check here every so often, but just went to the main DCS site to see if maybe it had been released and posted there. No word either place, but then I thought, "Hey, maybe I missed it somewhere." I do not want a time-frame, but do want to use it once released. Is there a specific way I can watch to see if it is announced (such as "on the main DCS site" or "Will be stickied here")? Thanks!:megalol:

So the guy gets bashed for this "I want everything NOW" theme, and then someone justifies it by saying he didn't use the "show me everything NOW" search engine. I've stayed away from these boards for a few months, and in the time gone it seems like an adolescent population growth has exploded here. All of you +1 people, how many of you have cell phones? I bet it is about every single one. So enjoy your bashing, even though it is completely unjustified and hypocritically stated. If you disagree and state it, that is one thing, what has happened here seems very childish and cruel.

I just can't (or won't) do it. $50 for a game, and then another $30 just to have a manual? If enough people did not buy it, and demanded it with the game, there is a chance they might listen. I spent minimum of $30 printing it myself (probably more like $50-60) because I am one who actually expects to be able to use a manual with a game like this without having to wait 6 months. I have not flown the Shark in about 6 months, I got tired of not getting responses from the makers (hey, 20 seconds for an e-mail, regardless of how in-depth, really isn't so much...to be ignored completely shows a distaste for good customer service), and feeling like I was having to pay double for a game just to be able to fly it. Most comments I've seen here are about "rushing to order," and I just think that is sad. If people accept a game without a proper manual, of course they are going to put the price on your head. I would often even encourage any way to give more money to the game companies, saying that the money is going towards developing new games, something I really like. In this case, though, I feel extorted no matter how I look at it. Never pirated a game in my life, don't plan to ever do so I can give the $ to developers to help them with more great games, but asking me to about double my price on a game just for a manual? To me, that is a sad way to treat your customers, and speaks (or should I say 'screams') about the current state of gaming in what was once such a rich field.

I know the A-10 is next, and then it has been suggested that the AH-64 Apache is next (though never confirmed at all), but I for one am dying for the F/A-18, especially based on a carrier. The old Jane's games were good, but today's computers usually don't run them well, and to be honest, they just don't hold a candle to what they have now. Personally, I was trying to play F/A-18 by Jane's a year ago, and at ever explosion the entire thing locked up. The only way I could play was to have no sound. I just pray that F/A-18 comes after A-10, and if not then that it comes after AH-64a Apache (or whatever is the 3rd module). There was a Russian carrier-based plane in LoMAC, but aside from that it has been a long time (and I just never did feel as comfortable in that Russian Navy plane...think it was due to pining for the F/A-18)

...and considering the link appears to show nothing, maybe some hints as to what it is? maybe?

Gave me headaches! I sent it back.

Ahh, good thought. I will try that. I know that the profiler is not "double" mapped. I checked it command by command.

Last comment I will make, and please don't feel I am being argumentative, I just think it is a rotten point right now. I cannot say I had computers back to the absolute original, the first one I had myself was the Commodore Amiga in 1989(though I did use a friend's IBM in '86-87). That would make it twenty years ago that I started "really" using computer games. This whole thing with slapping a *.pdf file is like telling a new car buyer, "Oh yeah, you have to get the tires yourself, and there is no oil in it. Sorry, times are tight you know." The thing that frustrates me most is that I subscribe to computer gaming magazines. For close to 10 years there has been a constant theme of "PC Games a dying trend?" which the magazine always counters and says, "No way!" (they do like subscribers, mind you). From my standpoint, the PC gaming industry has done more to close it off from the people who really care about it than any other source. MMORPSGRE, no manual, release and ignore to the PC crowd, if they even release PC at all. In the stores that are strictly for games (Gamestop, EB Games, etc.), the computer shelf used to cover the front half of the store on one side, and video games on the other. Now most don't carry them, and if they do it is back in the farthest corner of the store. I've often only been able to get titles that I preordered, as they tell me, "No, we don't bother stocking those." Comp USA (isn't that a computer store) now feels like a nintendo add when you walk in. So we have the mainstream side basically already seeming to be done with the PC, and then we have companies taking the attitude of, "Hey, we gave you a *.pdf, you should be happy." My point is, all they are doing is further alienating an all ready quite alienated line of products. Games for Windows is great, they should have done it 8-10 years ago to really have an effect. Every so often I read something, such as on some forum about 5 or 6 years ago with a guy venting about how sad it is that he spends $2,000-3,000 for a gaming rig, and yet companies ignore, defer or worst of all, give a console port (with MAJOR missing features...Tiger Woods anyone?) to the PC gaming community. Todd Howard saying that most of their games will stay as non-multi, single-player experiences (thank heavens for that one!). I think I am one of the only ones thinking these things, and then I see quotes like these that confirm that there are educated PC gamers who are quite frustrated at what used to be such a fun source of entertainment. I feel the PC game industry is shooting itself in the foot on this manual thing. I thought I was isolated on thinking this, but when I first started reading these forums I was surprised (but appreciative) of how many people would say, "I don't want a *.pdf, I want a readable copy that I can read in the yard, at the dinner table, in the tub (the tub one was an actual quote from a guy, and when I read it I just said, "I'm with you brother"). Instead of pleading poverty and not including what is, fully in my opinion PART of the game (thanks for the confimation, Sid!), companies continue to further alienate those who are so dedicated that they do spend thousands of dollars on "gaming-rigs." My wish (if I had one) is that the PC gaming industry would support its fanbase (not alienate it). People like Sid Meier and Todd Howard of Bethesda Software seem to be doing just fine by having that approach. In a sim like this, a printed manual is needed for the steep learning curve. I spent at least $40 printing it (probably more along $75, as I had to have it bound and I ended up using up color and black ink cartridges that cost $15 and 25 dollars, and several of the color prints looked so bad I ended up having to reprint a lot in black & white...probably my fault, but still, the money was spent). This approach has gotten, well, one true sim released in the last 4-5 years (Lock-on being the other latest, I think it was 2004 or so). I love PC gaming. I hate MMORPSRPSDfjow;erjl;kkjad;lfsjas;dlfj...horrid, and did more to kill PC games than anything, but not including game basics is kind of the nails going in many coffins. I read that the CEO of EA said he will never authorize a single-player game again, it must have some MMOEORPFOPEL bologna. When I read the article about 2 months ago, I closed it and said a prayer for Todd Howard's well-being. Last thing I remembered, strategy guides were the ones you buy extra to have extra help. A readable manual, well, that is part of the game. One of the most frustrating things I have had to do in recent gaming history is pause Black Shark, minimize it, open the *.pdf to the right spot, read, go back to BS, pause it, minimize, read, etc. It got old incredibly quickly.

I thank you for all the suggestions. Sadly, I only have 4 axes programmed through the game. There is no conflict with rudder and trim. The joystick buttons are all mapped to the Saitek software. I would think that is where the conflict is, between software and program, but it worked perfectly the first month I had it. I got away from it for about 3-4 weeks and then started flying, and it took me two days to realize the world doesn't spin constantly, my rudder on the back of the chopper was sticking. If I eliminate everything, using keyboard only default set up, NO sticky problem. Only thing is, I got this $150 joystick for this game. That is why I am so frustrated. I'm going in for another try, but I have zeroed out, deleted mapping files, set all to default, uninstalled and reinstalled the joystick. Everything show it SHOULD work, but then the rudder sticks.

That opinion is pretty much my point exactly. A manual shouldn't be an addition to the game, it should be part of the game. I think most people will say that they'd rather have a manual they can read while trying to learn the sim than one they have to pause/close/alt+tab out of in order to then read it on their computer screen (plus, if you are one who like to read it, say, on the couch, or while taking a relaxing bath, the *.pdf makes that impossible unless you spend 40-50 bucks printing it...so to have a complete game you have to double the price). I paraphrase Sid Meier in saying, "A computer game should come with a printed manual, it is part of the experience!"