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Everything posted by Headwarp

  1. I've never had a problem finding my mouse in VR. I might fumble for keys but, as long as I can find my home keys or the edges of the qwerty part of the keyboard I can generally hit what I'm aiming for without issue. I do have to feel around a bit for my TM Cougar MFD panels... but my stick and throttle I know by muscle memory and feel. I have a Blackhog B-explorer A model in front of my throttle for extra buttons.. I have a logitech G13 that I'd wish they'd release without the LCD panel and mechanical keys on the left of my throttle which I've programmed for UFC function, or whatever extra controls I might find useful depending on what aircraft I'm flying. There are some trade offs with VR.... but ultimately, for simming I couldn't go back to TrackIR having exerpienced it. It almost literally puts you inside the pit other than you can't feel your surroundings and you won't feel g-forces when maneuvering. The biggest caveat is that VR is going to generally want the the best hardware you can throw at it in flight sims. It's also worth noting that if you attempt VR, be prepared for understanding the multiple places one can change rendered resolution (I find it best to rely on only one method and I generally opt for the SS% slider in SteamVR vs any in game settings).. it's also good to understand you need to be able to maintain, at the very least, a frame rate equal to half the refresh rate of the VR displays, which can and will cause some weirdness here and there unless hardware catches up to the demands of DCS in VR and you can maintain a framerate equal to the refresh rate. But generally, a minimum fps of half your refresh rate will generally be your fine tuning point for any VR headset in DCS for smooth nausea free gameplay.
  2. That's fine.. why are we still talking about this? You like the Pro 2. I think it wasn't very well thought out. Again. NUFF SAID. But I mean.. at the same time I'm not going to have my experience minimalized because someone else doesn't share the same ideology on how hardware and software should behave. I don't like the automated features. You're cool with it. I think we've made that clear. I'm heading off now, you guys enjoy your headsets. I mean.. my request is hey HTC can you let us disable this automated feature? That would be great. If you're arguing against that option.. i'm just going to shake my head and leave. I've spoken with my wallet thanks.
  3. Yet your logs still display your GPU being tested, and your rendered resolution being set for you based on that number. It happens to result in a consistent resolution with your GPU. Again.. quite a small percentage of people rocking a 3090 out there. The rest are on Ebay for like $3500 or in a prebuilt PC running like 5 grand. No thanks. Like I say.. glad it's working for you.. hope it doesn't break in the future, being one more software layer capable of doing so. My experience with a different GPU is different than yours and I want the automatic BS to be turned off, which seems impossible. It's still on for you. It's still doing the calculations afaict. Different strokes for different folks and I'm choosing to go back to headsets that give me control over basic features. Nuff said from me. Y'all enjoy yourselves.
  4. Your resolutions were consistent.. your logs showed the automated stuff still happening.. when you hit the same resolution over and over your GPU test speed was within like 3 megapixels per second. Again.. it shouldn't taking buying an impossible to find 3090 to get a consistent resolution.. say what you want to say.. but I mean.. i covered what I saw in your logs with a bit of detail honestly. Glad you're enjoying your headset. I'm sending the "Vive Noob" back to B&H.
  5. What it boils down to really for me.. is I'm not going to support the design choice of automated resolution settings, the inability to uncap framerates etc etc. HTC wants me to buy an $800 headset, it needs to allow for control of basic features like setting my resolution. Anyway.. I've reboxed the Pro 2. I'm done here fellas y'all enjoy. i might check back in a few months and see if anybody's saying anything differently.
  6. The panels have almost exactly the same native resolution as my Odyssey.. it's about the lighthouse tracking and honestly the games I'd make use of that in looked fine as is at that resolution. The higher resolution headset really only mattered to me for simming. I understand what I bought. Thanks though.
  7. Editing that config file seems to have no effect. But the GPU testing thing does seem to be a bit more consistent than it was in previous versions. I do find it interesting that you and imacken both got a consistent resolution several times in a row but, but at least in imacken's case it appeared as if the gpu testing was still happening when I read through his logs. Now, if your vrcompositor logs were to also show an adjusted resolution equaling 3750x3750 like Imacken's were when he switched to Ultra from Auto.. could point to a bug with 20 series cards? My guess would be it's still doing the thing though, just more consistently, at least with a 3090. So they are working on the software, HTC support didn't bother to get back to me until after the update which makes me think they were trying to work with me and that update did close the gap between resolution changes on my end, but at this point I've asked them to explain to me why I can't simply disable any and all automatic resolution settings and I may delay another day to see what they say. For the general record, not just to sup.. I'm absolutely fine with having to lower my resolution a bit if/when needed. In fact I counted on having to make adjustments depending on different games. Hope y'all realize I do hope they fix this.. the Reverb G2 is not an option for me and I'm staying away from Pimax. The index might not even work out for me frankly due to size and ipd limitations. Thanks again everybody for all your help. I might revisit the Pro 2 one day if the software ever makes more sense to me.
  8. I just did a whole schpeel about unboxing my ready to be shipped back Pro 2 to disable that setting in default.vrsettings and it had no effect unfortunately. the CPU and motherboard, and even a new drive or two has changed. But the rest of my sig is close enough until I feel like updating it. It's not the first time you've pointed a finger at something on my end and I have done everything in my power to refute that aside from reinstalling windows which seems ridiculous and way overkill for a less than month old install on a mostly brand new PC that works fine other than some unsatisfactory (IMO) behavior from the Pro 2. I was getting better performance with my Odyssey than I was my 8700k even. And while it seems to be less variation at the moment.. I'm quite curious what happens if you plug the Pro 2 in to your pc with a 2080Ti in it? I think it'd be a more interesting conversation than several we've had about automatic gpu scaling, what it does, what it measures, etc etc and GPU strength. Though I do very much appreciate you for pointing out where to find the log files and everything like that it really did put some things in to perspective. VR Compositor logs from both of your machines with the vive pro 2 would be an interesting read for me honestly.. might even point me to something to send to HTC By no means do I expect you to take the time to do that. But really there's only one solution I'm looking for in this regard... and that's a consistent display resolution setting.. and while I wish I had one? The answer shouldn't be "Buy a 3090" ya know? I could make this thing work for me, at least resolution wise, if not for some weird design choices. That being said- the variation IS less it seems in But still my most recent tests on ultra @ 150% ss I was jumping between 2838 and 3008. Others within 100 pixels. That's cool and all. But.. I can't think of a good explanation why we can't turn it off other than developer neglect. Or someone thought they had good idea, but didn't?
  9. Might want to re-read a little bit I stated they are showing up more consistent since the latest update after imacken shared his logs with me. Kind of beating a dead horse with the whole "Your 2080TI is too weak" thing. I was easily riding 60fps in IL-2 and DCS. The problem being I'm unable to find out how much I can really squeeze out of the setup because the testing conditions are not consistent. I have put my system through far more rigorous testing than anything vive console is throwing at my system with its 2880x1700 render target acheiving 261 fps. It's stable. Thanks. It's not a 3090.. but it is a 2080Ti powered by a 11th gen intel @5.1ghz that has run stable in two different PC builds at the same exact OC settings without issue in for more demanding tests than what Vive Console is putting my GPU through at startup and it has easily handled some pretty high resolutions in VR.. but with a headset that didn't change my resolution ever. Unless I changed it. It was fixed. I was running the odyssey on a 980Ti before I got my 2080Ti.. I couldn't have done that if WMR+SteamVR was changing my settings all the time. I was barely getting away with native resolution. Again.. if performance were the issue.. I SHOULD be able to solve that by moving the resolution slider down. The issue rather, is that Vive Console's invisible resolution slider is doing it for me, without my consent. And it goes up. It goes down. It's simply inconsistent. What we do have is one new component to my system that is behaving in an undesirable manner. I mean.. if you bring one new animal into your house and notice a bad smell.. is it the houses fault? Do you rebuild the entire house in the hope that it deals with the stink? Check your VR compositor logs.. I bet your GPU Speed tests are within about 2-3 units of eachother and your Estimated throughput is pretty much the same everytime for your last 3 restarts. Feel free to correct me. Mine are showing up about +/- 20 megapixels per second is what MP/s is I guess. Still..give me an actual GOOD reason why we can't just run this headset at native resolution and adjust in steamVR as needed? That's my current quesiton to the HTC support staff anyway. I would be just freaking dandy, if I could just turn this automatic BS off, sup. Really. it's working fine your 3090 with little to no variation. That's great. You're part of like 1% of gamers. Stilll.. disabling "Automatic" in Vive Console isn't actually disabling the automatic resolution scaling. How that doesn't sound broken to anybody else is beyond me.. but I disagree. Thanks for running some tests though.
  10. Yeah those settings don't bseem to be doing anything at all unfortunately. Interestingly enough.. in C:\Program Files (x86)\VIVE\Updater\App\ViveVRRuntime\ViveVR\ViveVRServer (or the steamapps equivalent) there's an executable called ViveVRServer.exe. When i click it.. it starts vive console and SteamVR.. but not before doing this
  11. Aight den. Reckon I'm going to cut the tape.
  12. I overlooked that your reddit link also showed the default location when installing using ViveSetup. Vive Console for SteamVR is a app you can find through the steam store btw. You'd know if you did. That being said It won't let me edit the file because of admin rights or something on my drive lol. That could explain a lot. I guess I have to dig this thing out of the box was shipped in and test this now. Or honestly.. if somebody already has "DisplayResolutionAuto" : false, in their defaultvr.settings file.. mind doing a couple SteamVR restarts and uploading your vrcompositor logs? It would save me some tape if it doesn't stop the automatic scaling. I have some doubt doubt.. the last post in the reddit thread dburne linked said it doesn't seem to stop Vive Console from doign the auto thing.
  13. Alright.. well I just found that file. Also seems like it's set to read only lol. Which.. um. Might explain some things. Guess I'm going to unpack the box.
  14. Welp. I'm going to have to dig around this one because after my latest install of the vive software, opting for vivesetup.exe, I don't have a vive folder in steamapps. I did.. before I uninstalled everything vive, as well as SteamVR. But I opted not to use Vive Console for SteamVR this time and attmpted installing everything using the default directories in vive setup More digging yay. Thanks dburne for digging that up for me!
  15. #1 Thank you for obliging me. You've been the most help I've had with this yet, including HTC support staff. . It really puts things into perspective. Looking at your logs, it looks like calculations on the GPU are still being made. One thing that immediately stands out are these lines [2021-06-18 08:10:06.276 +0 0x2C34 INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 2328 MP/s [2021-06-18 08:10:06.276 +0 0x2C34 INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 2503 MP/s In order of the restarts shown in this log file.. they go like this 1. 2328, 2503 - Adjusted Render Resolution 3791x3791 (this will actually be closer to the resolution reported at 150% in steamVR, steamVR will be ever so slighty higher) 2. 2312, 2503 3771x3771 3. 2311, 2503 3771x3771 4. 2307, 2473 3763x3768 5 2302, 2503 3750x3750 6. 2301, 2503 3750x3750 7 2302, 2503 3750x3750 8.2301, 3503, 3750x3750 It looks like your GPU just stopped deviating enough for the resolution change, rather than an effect caused by turning off the automated settings. Other than that, I'm seeing no difference in those logs between Vive Console's automatic setting on or off, other than, that's when your gpu suddely decided to start running at the same speed everytime. Looking at my own logs.. the latest software update DID seem to cause more consistent results with my GPU Speed test and Estimated through put and my latest log only shows a deviation max of about 100x100 pixels. 10,000 pixels ain't really a big deal. So..okay. That to me says that's what they've been adjusting in response to my talks with the HTC Staff. The automatic resolution scaling feature. They've been making it more consitent. But.. my GpuSpeedTest number is higher than it's been showing. Estimated throughput, lower than what previous versions showed. Much closer together than previous versions between restarts. Like, the first day I had the headset it reported the same resolution multiple restarts in a row, but I think like your logs show, my gpu was getting results close enough for it not to change. I just don't know why anybody at HTC thought this was necessary or what purpose it serves other than so far, giving me a headache. I may make one more mail to the staff member who's been dealing with my frustration, and ask him why they can't just let us disable this automatic resolution thing. Sorry for missing that. I think I probably saw that setting then and it was disabled. Thanks again guys.
  16. Much appreciated. Checking it out.
  17. OH wtf. lol.. dude.. gonna make me pull this thing back out of the box.. format my GD OS that I installed less than a month ago on a brand new PC. On my end that setting is already disabled. Question.. is SteamVR on your C:\drive by chance? lol What version of Vive Console are you using? Before I actually pull this stuff back out of the box.. can you upload your most recent vrcompositor log from C:\ProgramData\HTC\ViveSoftware\ViveVRRuntime\logs? It should have today's date. I just want to look for differences in mine as far as how it's assigning rendered resolution. I would love to see what that says. P.S. anybody in this thread can chime in and share how this is behaving on their system by the way. If it's just me.. it's just me and that means I can probably fix it. I've just put quite a bit of effort into to trying to already, and wasn't about to wipe my system for one new component that wasn't behaving as expected. But if it's isolated to me.. yeah that's the next step, and honestly leads to something I missed from my vive software install before I actually had the headset. Would be kind of embarrassing for me honestly if it turned out the others I've seen mention this also, didn't realize they had their automatic settings enabled, with all I've had to say on the subject. Being embarrassed would be a good thing.
  18. If you can find a link that describes what file and what to type in to the search box.. I'd love to try it. You know if this was a Vive Console or SteamVR file? I have looked around for some kind of setting with no luck. Found some mentions of asynchronous reprojection and what not.
  19. Yeah I don't understand why you would expect it to make any hardware based calculations for you at all when you have unchecked "Let Vive Console handle this for me" Chose 2448x2448 @90hz, and set Rendered Resolution from auto to custom in SteamVR. Set the SS% slider to a place of your choice. Other than the slight increase that's calculated for lens distortion based on the shape of the HMD I.e. My odyssey at 1440x1660 per eye would be slightly higher in steamVR, but it was always the same number as long as the SS% was in the same spot. It only changed when I moved the slider. We already had an automatic setting that defaulted to 150% of native resolution. We also had the option of manually defining our rendering resolution, at least by percentage. What point or merit is there to circumventing that option? The only benefit I can possibly fathom from forced automated resolution settings is for someone who is not familiar with the effect rendered pixel count has on CPU and GPU performance in 3d titles. At the same time.. those are the same guys who jump into the forums wondering why their game is running like crap, not realizing they've left settings to default and they're rendering at 150% of the G2's native resolution on an old gpu due to SteamVR's automatic resolution scaling Neglecting to address that and give me back control over my resolution settings.. the "Vive Pro" is not the name I would've personally chosen for this headset. Anyway. Enjoy. Y'all have fun.
  20. Which, is also what one other 3090 user reported to me only slight deviations.. but it's still automatically changing your resolution for you. Right? I'm not sure since the latest update.. but there's also a pretty big difference between Ultra and Extreme mode resolutions when I switch.. even though it specifies the same resolution, at a higher refresh rate. And I mean.. even funnier.. if I leave the automatic setting on in Vive console.. it basically behaves as if I chose the Ultra setting. How about you? Is it putting you at Extreme 120hz by default with your 3090? No? It's just changing the resolution.. which again.. what exactly are we disabling with that setting? a locked 90 hz refresh rate? It just all kinds of doesn't make sense, at least from the cheap racing seat under this lifelong mid life PC gamer's hind end. Even if I had a 3090.. i'd still want consistency personally. Seriously. If my rig can't handle what I choose in Vive Console.. I already had the option of turning down the render resolution in SteamVR. Why force automatic resolution settings on me? In a run of 6 restarts for me I ranged between 7.8m-8.1. In another 5 I was as low as 7.2m in some cases. Switch to extreme mode it's down to 6.1m-6.6mn per eye right.. so that's like 1m more pixels rendered total, but way less than rendered in ultra mode. I've done this way more than 10 times as well. What's strange to me, is that the damned thing won't let me just pick ONE resolution and keep it there like any other display on the market. But what ever makes sense to you man. Pardon my frustration as well, it's aimed at HTC honestly.. when I saw the specs.. I was like YAY finally a headset big enough for my head with more pixels. Anyway. I'm over it. Hope everybody who doesn't mind this enjoys theirs, I've personally spent way too much time finding that exact spot where I don't dip below 45fps, or too far below 60fps in my flight sims. which is my #1 use for VR anyway.
  21. So, when you disable automatic resolution settings in Vive Console, select whatever mode you want, let's go with Ultra. Start SteamVR. Set Render resolution to 150% for example, and it reports a number. If you quit SteamVR and restart it again don't change any settings other than to confirm SteamVR rendered resolution is set to custom, and the slider is at 150%, do this about 3-4 more times.. it says that same exact resolution at 150% each and every time in SteamVR settings? I mean I know for a fact the resolutions change for other people than myself. I've asked around. In this thread we've pointed out that it's calculating rendered resolution based on gpu clock frequency regardless of settings in htc's vrcompositor log files every time you start the software. Some of the updates finally got it to start using something higher than my idle clock frequencies at least.. some of the time. Still, it's all over the place for me and frankly I would never want a display that constantly changes the rendered pixel count without me choosing a setting that forces it to do so. I'm on the fence on whether this was an intended feature, or something they did on accident. I hope it was an accident and they figure that out at some point. Maybe I'll try it again when they do. You'd be the first person who'd said otherwise to me in about 20 pages of this thread, reddit, vive forums, steam discussion boards, private messages.. So if yours is for some reason staying put, lemme know. There might be more troubleshooting to do. With respect, I'm not sure you've been looking for it. Not directly at imacken - but I'm really asking questions hoping for an answer in some of these posts. Remove all doubt, make a youtube video. yeesh
  22. Welp. Returning mine to B&H. Driving down to drop it off to the shipper tomorrow. I just can't deal with the resolution inconsistencies. I have spent far too much time fine tuning my system for optimal results both in and out of VR to fathom why anybody would think it's acceptable to start a program at a different resolution every time SteamVR is restarted. To HTC's support team's credit.. it seems like they did try communicating with the development team to try to address some of my complaints.. but so far up to I haven't bothered actually using the headset other than to start and restart SteamVR over and over again to be looking at a different number in the Resolution per eye. I'm talking.. jumps from like 7.2m pixels per eye to like 8.1m pixels per eye, and the only thing being done in between is quitting steamVR and restarting it. I do like lighthouse tracking.. ordered an Index just to see if I can manage with the max IPD setting an maybe a thicker face pad with my 72mm. Honestly if a Vive Pro 1 headset only were available at MSRP I'd probably snag one for the AMOLED and wider IPD range. But I can only find them used for more than MSRP or as a full kit. Hopefully I can make the Index work for me though. If nothing else.. I still have my Odyssey which provided a very nice experience at 60hz and no motion reprojection for simming.
  23. IME if it doesn't say "Out for Delivery" when you look up the tracking number then it's not on a truck. But.. there are exceptions to that. Being that close you at least know you should have it by tomorrow. You'll have a busy weekend, sir.
  24. I just had a nice little chat with a vive techsupport/customer service agent via their live chat, to which they immediately escalated the issue to a ticket upon hearing my descriptions of the issues and gathering my hardware and OS info. They didn't even make me jump through the hoops of general troubleshooting guides. Instead simply asked me what all I've done trying to troubleshoot, asked me for the hardware I'm running and told me to also use the Report function in vive console which I already have.. the rep even commented that it sounded like I was pretty experienced in the matter so that may have prompted her not to beat around the bush. So.. it will be interesting to see what kind of responses I get to the escalated ticket.
  25. Yeah that's worded in a way that seems confusing. Let's quote the part you didn't bold. "If we had set it to 100%, a lot of PCs would struggle under automatic settings." which implies, that there is also a manual setting. When you read the entire paragraph they are clearly talking about a feature that already existed, and has been disabled by most power users for years now. And also.. I mean.. "A lot of PC's would struggle @100%".. so we bumped it up to 150%".. what? say again? huh? Yeah that makes sense. /s People are struggling at native.. so let's increase the resolution to fix that. And this is the logic that makes us happy we have a manual option. Interesting find however thanks to you pointing me to the vr compositor log. It does seem to be doing some automated calucalations. Here are some more reasons I don't want it to do so, and therefore disabled the automatic resolution setting in vive console, which didn't provide the result I was looking for. This is what happened when I enabled the boost lock for my GPU in EVGA Precision, which actually puts me between 1980-2055mhz gpu clock Additional VsyncToPhoton time = 0.000000 seconds. [2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Adapter[0] LUID.hp = 0, LUID.lp = 54771 [2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Display Padding: (0, 0) [2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Display Width: 4896, Height: 2448 [2021-06-10 13:04:29.944 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Default Render Width (per eye): 3320, Height: 3320 [2021-06-10 13:04:29.945 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Hidden mesh area per eye: 0.100613 [2021-06-10 13:04:29.945 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Measure GPU speed with 2880 x 1700 render target. [2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 1690 MP/s [2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 1784 MP/s [2021-06-10 13:04:30.181 -5 0xF3C INFO Initialize] Adjusted render Width (per eye): 3218, Height: 3218 [Scale = 0.940000] SteamVR resolutoin at 150% 3104.. um. apparently 150% is the new 100%. This what happens at idle gpu clock speeds, which is actually 1350mhz [2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Adapter[0] LUID.hp = 0, LUID.lp = 55475 [2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Display Padding: (0, 0) [2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Display Width: 4896, Height: 2448 [2021-06-10 13:22:16.019 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Default Render Width (per eye): 2842, Height: 2842 [2021-06-10 13:22:16.020 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Hidden mesh area per eye: 0.100613 [2021-06-10 13:22:16.020 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Measure GPU speed with 2880 x 1700 render target. [2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] GPU speed test result: 1225 MP/s [2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Estimated default throughput: 1307 MP/s [2021-06-10 13:22:16.340 -5 0xEE0 INFO Initialize] Adjusted render Width (per eye): 2740, Height: 2740 [Scale = 0.930000] 150%SS in SteamVR is actually much closer to the reported resolutions on the bottom line taken in to scale. 3218 x .94 = 3024ish.. so it's just hair higher at Steams 3104x3104 resolution. That will still probably be a different number the next time I started up SteamVR however, as it is always a different result. However.. if this is truthfully as designed, and not some confusion between the HTC software development team on what this feature should do or a bug where my resolution is different every single time I start up SteamVR? That's a deal breaker for me. It makes absolutely zero sense for you to allow me to manually choose a resolution, and then completely ignore the setting I chose. And then base that on my IDLE gpu clock frequencies which are no where close to where I'll be when a VR title is actually running. Defeats the whole purpose of disabling automatic settings for performance tweaks. I have never utilized, neither have I ever wanted software to attempt to handle my performance tweaking for me. Especially in DCSW and other sims where I have put countless hours into determining my sweetspots for VR performance with far better results than automatic scaling has ever offered me. And I am still inclined to believe that what SteamVR is reporting the resolution at, at least in 120hz modes is just plainly incorrect, as stated in an earlier post that what should've been about 4.4m pixels per eye in the Pro 2 was performing worse than 5.9m pixels per eye in the Odyssey. I don't forsee HTC fixing it before my return period is up. Hope they prove me wrong. It makes more sense to me still that the automatic display resolution setting in Vive Console is bugged much like the Motion Compensation switch having no effect on or off. In fact the only consistency the option seems to offer when disabled is the refresh rate chosen.
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