Flyby

hi sinelnic, good stuff in that reply. I guess I only add that multi-cores will really come in handy for our combat flight sims. Not just for the low and slow scenery ( I think that's GPU rendering speeds there), but for all those little things we want "simulated" in our little combat worlds (like calculated weapons performance, clouds/weather, complex AI routines -with lots of AI participants-as in intelligent targets/adversaries/flight members, radars, laser designators, FMs, etc). To me these are where multi-cores will receive the most stressing. But I want that orgy of beautiful graphics too! :D Are you familiar with this site? http://www.devmaster.net/forums/index.php I found it while searching for info on coming 3d engine tech.

hmmm...very interesting. You must tell us more about your testing. Flyby out

Wags, can you spare a moment or two to go to these (DCS forum) links, and maybe comment? They are about the i5 and the i7 processors for gaming, and future-proofing road maps:http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=745147&posted=1#post745147 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=44589 I suppose the question is which processor architecture might serve the future needs of DCS best in the future (near term, like two-four years)? I know. I know. But it's a medical condition. I can't help it. Flyby out

I'm too dizzy to think clear Hi Sam, I just committed to an upgrade path. I've purchased an i7-920 from Micro Center for the paltry sum of $200.00 USD. That price is nearly $80.00 les than elsewhere on the web, and that's money I can divert to a better GPU ( I like the GTX285 with it''s 512mb bus, but the '275 is a good buy too, imo). I'm waiting for a confirm, since it's a local-must-pick-it-up-at-the-store purchase. The website listed the remaining quantity at 4 units last night when I ordered. It'll be just my luck that by the time I should receive my confirm email I'll get one saying they are all sold out! But I'm glad you're getting some good info about the i5. Right now it looks as if the i5 series has tested very strong against the i7 when it comes to PC games. But I'm seeing the i7 as the longer, stronger performance upgrade path. I may be seeing that wrong. I wish Wags would weigh in here since he's so close to the future DCS gaming engine. Perhaps he could provide some divine insight as to which processor upgrade might serve DCS best/longest. I know it's hard to say, but there are people out there developing gaming engines right now (check this link out: http://www.devmaster.net/forums/index.php ), and they may be looking at the potential of the two processors. Here's another link that might be helpful for peering into the CPU future: http://www.cpu-world.com/index.html Still, a question remains. Will gaming engines take advantage of the other performance features the i7 has over the i5? Or is it really just a matter of GHZ that will rule our complex flight sim gaming performance over the next few years? My gamble is that the i7 road path will be the longer-winded path over the i5. Now to just prove that opinion. We'll see. Wags? Where are ya buddy? Flyby out

I just love sharing. Don't you? :D http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,691811/Lynnfield-tested-Intel-Core-i5-750-and-Core-i7-860-benchmarked-in-Anno-1404-Dawn-of-Discovery/Reviews/ Flyby out

but wait...there's more: http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,691811/Lynnfield-tested-Intel-Core-i5-750-and-Core-i7-860-benchmarked-in-Anno-1404-Dawn-of-Discovery/Reviews/ Flyby out

want to build your own game? Just about everything one might need is here: http://www.devmaster.net/forums/ Flyby out

hey Cyber, I read you loud and clear. I'd better decide soon. No telling how long Micro Center will keep those i7-920s priced at $200.00 USD. The savings will go far towards keeping the price of the rig down. I guess I'd be going on faith that the software people are working on some killer new combat flight sims that will, within two years, have even the i7 series gasping for breath. I've erad enough to make me think I can select good overclocking components to go along with the i7, and not have to spend a fortune to get the results I want. Imagine the day when our combat flight sims are no longer bottle-necked by the cpu. What that monster might be one can only imagine. Oh, and new video cards are around the corner from both camps. :D Flyby out

ah, sweinhart. I just replied toy ur comments in that other thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=44589&page=2 Good stuff you mention there. So thanks for replying here too. More good info to know. ;) I never knew which level of cache was faster, never even considered it. Didn't know exactly why it was there, either, not specifically so. So thanks again. Keep enlightening the forums like this and I'm sure your rep will grow quickly. Flyby out

So, sweinhart, would you say the i7 has no power over the i5 or your 9770 in purely gaming, like flignt sims? How about a future upgrade path? I'm thinking of Rof, and the future conversion of the DCS code to take advantage of multiple cores. I admit there is not much out there now to strain an i7, but the flight sims of next year (Oleg's SoW series) will be among us. Simply, what I'm trying to do is peer into the near future to see which processor series will be the better one for the future combat sims. What with complex AI (think of wingmen, AA-gunners,drivers, etc), FM, weapons (think electronic battlefield), weather, these sims, all threaded to use multiple cores, and maybe large cache, which way to go? I need a stiff drink! :D Flyby out

I know it's dumb, but the FORCE compels me to ask. Two CPUs to chose from. All things being equal (cores, clocks, architecture), the only difference in them is one has 8mb of L2 (or L3) cache and the other has 12mb of the same cache. From a sim-er's perspective, which is the better choice (think LOMAC/FC, Black Shark, FSX, RoF **Sow_BoB**), and why? effya-doe-nax-ya-doe-no :lol: Flyby out

yeah, I know. You can always count on that "Flyby" guy to stir the pot. ;) Actually it's good to read these various replies because of the different perspectives and experiences. Interesting that DCS may not code for multiple cores for a while yet, but commendable that the old engine is doing so well for so many rotor-heads. sinelnic, are you running a high "traffic" setting in FSX? Or complex landscapes? I've reads that these are real CPU cycle hogs. "3- I believe in long-term hw investing, I bought this rig about three years ago, and I'm still to find some game I cannot play @ max settings, and until developers take full advantage of multicore, I believe that's what will continue to happen. I was very frustrated to see FSX's poor optimizations, and was amazed to see how ED could improve the visual quality so much without taxing my hardware. DCS will not support multicore for another year or more (GGTharos dixit, correct me if I'm wrong), so I have plenty of time to invest in other areas (multi-monitors, better controls, learning to actually fly) before considering a full HW upgrade. Software development lags hw by many many miles, see how many games are currently designed around DX10." Well, yeah, but remember when IL2 came out? It was ahead of hardware at the time, as was LOMAC. It will always be a back-and-forth, push-me/pull-me thing between hardware and software imo (just like the war between GPU and CPU; which is the bottleneck now?). Oddly, it seems that new sims sometimes require new hardware (think when Crysis hit the streets). So which has the better upgrade potential for sims? i5? Or i7? Flyby out

If the article is to be believed, the i5 is certainly close to the i7 in gaming performance now. Does anyone know of an upgrade path for either one of these CPUs that might be more advantageous to us flight sim-ers? I've read recently that our sims seem to favor more processor speed rather than hyper-threading. I also read that more on-die cache is better for our ilk too. That's why I wonder which has the greater potential for a long(er) term (gamer's perspective) road map? I saw somewhere that the i5 motherboards will only support 8x8x SLI or Crossfire. I'm not too sure that will be a big issue, bandwidth-wise. I recall reading that a P45 mobo with 8x8x was nearly matching an X48 mobo for fps in games. How's that for having sufficient bandwidth without going top shelf? So while I don't do video editing, or other heavy app where the i7 outperforms the i5, I'd gamble that the i7 will be the better upgrade path for sim-ers. Especially since Micro Center is offering the i7-920 CPU for $199.99 right now on the web. That's killer! Flyby out

The i5 is due out soon, and is being declared a viable gaming-cpu option (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/08/25/intel_core_i5_performance_preview/1). But MicroCenter STILL sells the i7-920 for $199.00- store pickup only. So I wanted to ask you guys if the i7 is the long term better buy? I'm only thinking gaming here, and maybe it comes down to platform. Is the X58 platform a better gaming platform than the P55 platform? Oh! Nevermind! I know how you guys are! :D There is no "long term" in computer gaming hardware. Might as well get an i5 system. It will be years before gaming codes take advantage of what's out there now (unless someone knows differently). Flyby out edit: well, I had some time on my hands,and my mind wandered:music_whistling:

get crazy? heck I'm starting to think about AMD now!:pilotfly:But it sort of looks like the i5 is a better gamer than the new Phenom II X4 965BE. Can't run two GPUs except at x8-x8. Probably going to be more expensive than the AMD part too. I just have to guess correct that the road map for the Phenom includes plans to challenge the i7-920 without having to do a chipset re-do.:smilewink: Flyby out

per this early report, if you're only out for a gaming rig, the i5 processor is comparable to the i7, good news for some. read all about it here: http://en.hardspell.com/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=6804&pageid=5443 of course you'll see that the i5 does suck hind tit on some other apps. But that just means ya gotta wait a little bit longer. ;) who loves ya, Baby?:P Flyby out

yeah, I get your meaning. If one is into complex flight sims Intel seems to be more future-proof than AMD, atm. With Oleg's SoW coming out this century, and DCS's future projects, I have little doubt that the term "cpu-intensive" will continue to haunt us for years to come. ;) I suspect that if I go AMD right now I may be selecting a pathway that is more affordable, but may possibly never let me run gameplay equal to an i7 system. But it's all a matter of degree (of acceptable performance). How many features will I have to turn down? How many can I life without? Yep. All relative. Flyby out.

well I must admit I need to take a longer look at an alternative system versus the i7. one thing I need to find out is what AMD's CPU road map looks like. Have to think of a future upgrade path. Flyby out

well, ya know, there's always... the dark side...: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=794&page=1 :music_whistling: If nothing else, read the last two pages from the review's drop-down menu. A 4890 in Crossfire must be a real power hog. Still...fascinating. Flyby out

Not to stir up the old hornets nest, but here's a link to a value comparison between te two CPU combatants: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=794&page=1 Flyby out

hey that looks pretty convincing. I always thought Crysis was a bear to run. But apparently it's a tamer bear here. ;) Flyby out

Interesting too that Nvidia has licensed with the major mobo makers to all SLi on the P55 mobos. Well, it's just mental exercise now. ;) Flyby out

It tests me!:mad: Always a little taste more to further hook the addiction.:helpsmilie: http://en.expreview.com/2009/08/10/intels-roadmap-reveals-32nm-clarkdale-specs.html Nah! i7-13xx for me.;) Flyby out

yeah man! that thing is a beast!:thumbup: With the kind of system bandwidth (+40 gb/s), and core usage, imagine our flight sims suddenly not being very cpu-intensive. At least for a while anyway. I was surprised to see that Intel used a Tyan motherboard. Don't see Tyan on the hardware sites too often. But if they have the hookup, well, there ya are!:D Flyby out

the inquirer is usually my first tech stop of the day: http://www.theinquirer.net/ I can usually count on it to scour the web for the latest info. Flyby out