bongodriver

If the first stetch goal is made that makes 3 german aircraft to 1 british.

Bingo? Same model from the same forum.....or rather same design team rather than actual model My point is that the sight may only occasionally appeared slightly obstructed, 6dof head movement is going to give a few varied head positions, I really don't see a problem there, but I have just identified where real world refraction might have given a worse forward view than we actually get in game. I might add the refraction issue became blindingly obvious in the end, it doesn't even need the pictures to understand, when the viewpoint is reliant on being fixed i.e. looking through a sight then the entire image ahead is shifted down due to the refraction, if looking from that fixed point and the image is shifted down you lose the bottom portion of what you could see without refraction.

yeah but in reality its not obstructing the actual sight reticule, only a miniscule portion of the overall sight aperture, as I just proved above the big problem is the refraction is eliminating a portion of the lower view, the sight glass could be made smaller in circumference or the pilot could lower his eye line slightly and hey presto the problem is solved, no blame on Kurt for that one, I'm sure he was just a human being anyway.

Well technically we are paying 100K for these 3 aircraft.

I like it, snobs he says in a slightly condescending way :smilewink:

No we need a second British type to even the numbers, at the moment it 2 US, 2 German and 1 British.

Notice a theme here? Seems that everybody who ever made a 3d model of a 190 all went with the 'bar' in view, presumably they all worked from good drawings to make the models. refraction or not the bottom edge of the glass is fully visible as proved by this picture Given that the entire bottom edge of the armoured glass in its frame was visible to the pilot because it physically sits on top of the instrument shroud in plain sigh of the pilot and clearly refraction does not eliminate this, one can deduce the bar was there and is accurately represented as visible above the instrument shroud, as illustrated in the above test picture this means that due to refraction in actual fact a small potion of view above the nose is hidden just like the small portion of the edge of the table is missing in the test picture, so it's not the bar that obstructs the view but actually the refraction that reduces forward visibility.......it's worryingly starting to look like forward visibility is actually better in the simulator than in real life.

Clearly a lot of faith is needed as Luthier's methodology here is, shall we say, unorthodox.

Ello Ello Ello!! has Krupi been rumbled? frequent the odd seedy gentlemans clubs eh?.........can I come?:music_whistling:

Not much of a slant though, don't forget the germans put guns up there and they couldn't liberally slant the nose, you can see clearly the guns are almost parallel with the horizontal, in fact most of the reason there is an apparent slant is because of the step down from the gun bulges.

The bar is visible, it's just not prominent above the entire forward view, the nose of the aircraft in this case is replacing the bar....and this pic is a short nosed 190. the padding in this picture is not how it should be for operational use, because there is no gunsight modern operators simply close the gap that should be there.

I don't see any 'magic window' effect in Kodoss's picture......I do see a lot of nose though, so the picture is taken from higher than normal pilots viewpoint..........which is supposedly what happens with the refraction.

Which doesn't really prove anything, we already know the view is unobstructed from there, we need a view looking along and parallel to the upper forward fuselage.

Oops, yes that's true my bad, it's one of those issues that makes the head hurt after a while, presumably then most aircraft with armoured glass benefited from this effect, so we should consider improving visibility for other types too.

Well 'the bar' is the bottom edge of the windscreen in its frame, as far as I can see it was clearly visible from the pilots viewpoint as the whole bottom edge of the windscreen sits above the instrument shroud Illustrated clearly in the diagram and several photographs, how much it actually affected the sight picture is not clear. the pilots viewpoint is also clearly quite low in the cockpit again the diagrams provided illustrate this with the pilots head more or less already touching the top of the canopy, advocates of the 'refraction made the bar disappear' have to accept that by that same effect the effective viewpoint of the pilot is also lowered further by effectively raising the entire picture through the glass up (including the very slightly sloped loooooong nose)

very few people are not willing to accept being proved wrong.....it seems all of them frequent flight sim and WWII forums.

all aircraft had faults and were accepted.......perhaps the need for the aircraft in service outweighed the need to make it perfect, it's being discussed because it simply isn't as clear cut as you believe it is and I mean that with the greatest of respect I hope you know Krupi.

Yeah but a pitch down like that isn't going to help a deflection shot.

a company regarded highly for their accuracy....

Hilarious!......if you try a bit of internet research on this then every single interesting picture of relevance comes from the ubi discussion, all the same arguments and theories. interesting picture here though

No but it's the only one in the world that has the long nose, a nice view from the pilots position will still answer a lot of questions.

I reckon yes

something with eye position would be handy

Not much, Try drawing a line from the pilots view to the periphery of the cowling before it curves away, everything below that extended line is invisible to the pilot, for deflection shooting that's not great.

Well they tend to on all aircraft apart from the 'Spirit of StLouis', unless they slope downwards along the line of sigh then they will be visible and it becomes more apparent the longer the nose gets, think about the sea fury and the deliberate design for that reason, the 190 does not have the same angled fuselage.