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Thinder

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Everything posted by Thinder

  1. Hi! If anyone has this at home, what is your impression playing DCS with it?
  2. Agreed. What I noticed in this forum is the tendency of some to do AMD bashing, from my PoV, it's not about manufaturers but players needs and choice. Before I commited to what I have now, I researched multiple solutions, I chose the Ryzen 5 5600X because it is for me the best choice in terms of budget/performance ratio, when you know that my board can be find for belo £70 today, considering the performances I get from my system I'm happy I didn't buy the last generation of AMD boards, The Socket 4 is ont its way out, so there is no point investing much on it, but if one can manage to build a PC with the requiered performances at lower cost it's what matters most. In the case of this video, I thought that the technologies involved (RDNA3) were interesting, but not to me just yet, only, as an AMD CPU user, I try to inform players to the best of my abilities, this video might not be the best I reccon but it remains informative.
  3. 100%+ That's what should matter most to all players, and the reason I don't hesitate to run an Nvidia card with my 5600X, I had a very good deal from CEX and a two years warranty. Now, this doesn't mean we can't share our experiences and propose options and choices to those who are planning to build a new PC but I have to highlight the fact that with the newest technologies, new standards will come, including new sockets, which will make Motherboards and PCU near-obsolescent. In the case of AMD we can expect the next socket out by last yearly quarter, I'm not sure about Intel (Socket: LGA 1700?) when it comes to their next socket release but in any case, if you are looking at a budget build today, splashing 3 times as much money on an AMD socket 4 motherboard than what my MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max cost makes absolutely no sense. Of course AMD and board manufacturers will want you to do just that, but if you compare the specs, what they support, what you really need to play online games such as DCS etc, you'll figure that you don't need to spend £150 on a board that will not be compatible with the next generation of CPUs anyway. It's in this optic that I built my PC, the motherboard is not all-dancing-and-singing but it's excellent and support every features I need for best gaming performances today, you can find them for as low as £69.98 without researching too much, then fit any last Gen AMD CPU to it and the best RAM kits available to it. An X570S GAMING X will cost you £169.99 and an MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI £224.99, this difference in cost more than upset the premium one can pay for a B.Die RAM kit and in any case, the performances will be the same, even superior if you save the money and spash it on a B.Die RAM kit. It's not all about cost and features, it's also about what we need.
  4. That's projection mattey, questioning people credibility on someone else material is not exactly politically corect and the kind of stuff I don't react too well to, I could have been more "insulting" and explain how Adolf Hitler explained how to use people's emotions in order to manipulate them, dixit Mein Kempf, but I'll skip this topic for the sake of forum peace. Next time, before implying that people are biased, check the content of their previous posts and their specs, this could avoid yet another cluster you-know-what.
  5. That's more the point about it all. Passed the NVIDIA vs AMD fanboyism, this is where AMD users differs from Intel users. I used Intel CPUs until my boss decided to go AMD to cut prices since we were building our own machines for the 3D department, and AMD generally offers cheaper solutions, which is why I went for a 5600X in the first place. AMD weren't coming to the market at the right time due to the effects of the pandemic, the new GPUs saw their price going up and availability going down but the general idea remained the same at the base, offering an alternative to Nvidia products from mid range upward, I have to say they messed up big time but there are reasons for it. Some people are into splashing as much buck as they can into the "best" or "fastest" money can buy them, some of us have a much longer term view of the market, like building a PC offering resonably good performances based on cheaper but viable options than what is supposely "best" or "fastest". This is the reason for the AMD CPUs to sell well and the 5600X to become the AMD gamer's favourite, this CPU is also Newegg best seller for the same reason... https://www.newegg.com/d/Best-Sellers/Processors-Desktops/s/ID-343 That's what AMD gamers are after and always have been, "beating" Nvidia GPUs might be AMD wet dream but not necessarily our concern, that's why I'm using a 1080Ti and will keep it until I see a viable alternative to it, that's $ for frame at 4K...
  6. Blah. Like I am at the origin of the headline. Did you notice that I didn't change anything to it? I copy-pasted the title as it was at the time... "Passion"? You mistake me with one of your democrate snowflake, on the other hand I inform people to the best of my abilities and write about what I know, reading the comments in this topic I might be the only one. >>>>>> Want more "biased" comments? I'm not planning any upgrade within at least 3 years from now, so it is not a concern to me, I'm more than happy to stick to my EVGA GEFORCE 1080 Ti for the time being, it's excellent. I purchasedf my 1080 as a stop gap but I am more than happy with its performances in VR as well, of course it is not comparible with one of the newer GPUs but works pretty well in most situation. I don't need "credibility" I don't take this forum for a beauty Pageant, as for being biased, I wrote about my EVGA GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti first thing, starting by how I got it second hand with a two years warranty from CEX and how good it is. As I say I write about what I know. When you fanboyz are finished with your usual jumping up and down thing, try something new...
  7. Would be interestintg to know more than "32G Ram", the difference can be as high as 10%.
  8. A few things: First, you gain more with a proper RAM/CPU bounding than OCing your CPU which nulifies the warranty for a similar extra cost due to high quality RAM premium. Second, DCS doesn't work better with more cores but it will respond way better if you don't have a RAM bottleneck forcing your CPU to throttle back under load,. you can bet your next X-Mass turkey that both Intel and AMD will come up with a new socket before DCS can use more than two Cores efficiently. Then you don't need more than 32GB so you can budget your RAM within reasonable amounts of money and still buy quality components such as B.Die RAM. B.Die RAM are available for both Intel and AMD. Last but not least: You need good case cooling, make sure you get fresh air inside the case, I use an Artic Freezer 7X and never got more than 76°C at full load but my case is vented by 3 high-speed and two high-ressure 120mm fans, I also made sure two of them are aligned to the CPU cooler fan. One high pressure vents the GPU while the second one exhaust the hot air just behind the CPU fan. >>> IF you go the AMD way, a 3200MHz B.Die kit will do the job just fine, just make sure that; you have a maximum of 4 ranks, meaning 2 X 2 or 4 X 1 ranks configuration, those are the limits imposed by what the controller can cope with: 3200 MHz which is the frequency at which the manufaturer guaranty CPU maximum performances. Ryzen CPUs does a lot better with low latency than high frequencies, Cl16 being the maximum reasonable for good performances, Cl14 is best. Above 3200MHz, the higher the RAM speed, the lower the CPU speed guaranteed. Again, Controllers limits. 3200MHz/4 ranks. A 4 X 1 configuration make sure your CPU will use interleaving and it add to the overal performances of the RAM, B.die doesn't add to performances as such but as a much more stable material, allows for much tighter BIOS frequencies timings. You might think that the premium coming with this sort of RAM kits is not worth it, I disagree and I got a 6.4% increase in CPU performance from going from a Crucial 2 X 16Cl to my actual RAM kit, same frequency, same capacity and since the CPU also set the CPU-to-GPU bus speed, I got an extra 1.33% increase in GPU performances. For your info, ALL of those figures are the result of a back-to-back 3DMark Pro test at 4K. Now, 2000K for a 5600X is just not realistic if you want to play DCS at 4K but you can save money by shopping around for the best deals: Why go for a 7 5800X? A well cooled and RAM-bounded 5600X will do you just fine, the 5600X is way more energy efficient meaning it will be easier to cool. The difference between the two in terms of performances is not worth the extra dosh, basically, the best gaming AMD CPU for budget players is the 5600X, so if I were you, I'd save the extra dosh and spash it in a Cl14 B.Die RAM kit. What I can recommand if you can build your CPU yourself it will save money. Start with a quality power supply that will guaranty continuous 750W minimum. Where you can actually SAVE money is by using known good deals: The MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max is cheap, very good quality and with BIOS update supports all AMD new gen CPUs. You can fit a SAMSUNG 500GB 970 EVO Plus SSD to it, it has a slot for it and is <> 10 times faster than a SATA read/write, your SSD WD Blue SN550 NVMe SSD 1TB would fit as well. Artic 7X Freezer cooler. Passed this, it's a matter of looking around for the best money can buy within your budget, personally I chose to cut corners when it comes to the case, not that it is bad actualy but not level with more expensive cases when it comes to features (no internal DVD), my GPU is second hand although warranty for two years, I didn't upgrade the fans but added two NOCTUA to the 3 stock 120mm coming with the case. My best buys after use: MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max. G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR. Those two are the key components which allows my Ryzen 5600X to perform as it does. https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232488?Item=N82E16820232488
  9. All Intel or All AMD, I have a mix for the moment but my next upgrade will be to replace the excellent GTX 1080Ti. Don't forget to bound your CPU with the best RAM available to Intel CPUs, you' could gain more in performance this way than splashing dosh into liquid cooler and O.C, my tip: B.Die.
  10. I know of a few US and allies soldiers who wished those girls and their A-10 were available right now...
  11. I can understand that you need to rely on PC manufacturers combos for your gaming, not everyone is into spending time and (seemingly money because at the end of the day you can get better performances for lower cost) money for your gaming PC build, but I will try to keep it simple: Your PC is not configured to play games. There have been major changes in the behavior of RAM kits to Ryzen 5 generation due to the CPU new architecture, myself tested back to back my old 3600X and 5600X with the old Cl 16 3200MHz kit and witnessed and increase of 21% performance during testing with 3DMark Pro at 4K. When a 3600X would react better with an increase in RAM frequency, the 5600X or your 5900X are tailor-made for precisely the opposite, they react much better to lower latency than higher frequency, In any case, sticking to AMD recommanded RAM frequency is a good idea (3200MHz). Motherboard/CPU are equaly important, they determines the way your RAM is used, forget about the "Scan 3XS" part of your signature and replace it with the Motherboard make, model and BIOS/BIOS update, this way people will be in a better position to help you. Motherboard manufacturers are releasing BIOS updates with new timings that provide far better performances with high quality RAM (B.Die), in many case, when you swap RAM with and updated BIOS, you don't even need to change BIOS settings, the timing are already in the BIOS IF properly updated and your RAM kit is supported by your motherboard manufacturer. The number of RAM sticks is also playing a much larger role with 5000, because of interleaving, the controller can use the sticks more efficiently than the previous Ryzen 5 generation and there is a clear gain in a 4 X1 confiuguration over a 2 X 1 sticks configuration. Here I reiterate: You do not need 64GB of RAM to play DCS or any other game for that matter, for £347.99, the cost of your RAM kit, you could have a much higher quality one giving you much tighter timings your motherboard and CPU can use its and your CPU give you its own best performances. Instead, they fited a high latency, high frequency RAM much more tailored to an average secretary job than what is requiered for online gaming, and not within AMD recommanded specs for RAM, AMD does not support their higher CPU frequencies with this kit. This lead me to think that those are kits can't be sold otherwise, 3200MHz Cl14 X 4 sticks kits are outperforming other non B.Die kits by up to 10% and 3600 MHz B.Die rarely outperform them, mostly because 3600MHz is already above the AMD recommanded (UP TO) frequency limit and will cause your CPU to throttle down when its limites are reached. So at the end of the day, your RAM is simply not performing as well as one B.Die kit despite its speed and capacity, we don't need to wait for AMD reply to my email to be afirmative on this point, I too await for their reply but I wouldn't be expecting them to reply fast, every support teams are in a mess due to Covid-19 restrictions and lock-down. I canot tell you what to do, but in your case, being in the UK, I would replace the RAM anyway, it is not properly bounded to your CPU for a starter, buy one B.Die kit to replace it then sell your actual kit to CEX. I've done this myself but it was done as part of a planed multi-stage upgrade since I needed to replace defective parts on my previous PC in emergency. Alternatively, you could try to contact your PC manufacturer and get an exchange deal for a 4 X 1 rank, 3200MHz, Cl14 RAM kit after making sure your motherboard manufacturer and BIOS supports it, this last bit is up to you, do your reseach work, don't rely blindly on people who sell PCs and bits for a living.
  12. Well, let's say I try to keep myself informed and to do so, I just emailed AMD on this precise topic quoting this particular RAM kit, right or wrong I'll post the reply, because he needs the infos to sort his issues. I prefer to bet on a CPU which is not going to throttle down due to a RAM bottleneck even if I have only 32GB today, my guess is that RAM manufacturers are already working on the next generation or RAM suitable for the next AMD socket, then the problem will be solved, we'll have to change everything. In passing, the G.Skill kit cost me <> £80 more than the Crucial kit (without postage from the USA) it replaced and since I wanted a faster PC while avoiding O.Cing it, I got the best deal possible, only looking at the cost of a quality liquid cooler, Newegg sells the 64GB kit at $562.60, £405.77. G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR Obviously, at the rate the gaming world is evolving, we'll need more than 32GB of RAM sooner than later, for the time being, I worked hard enough at eliminating this RAM bottleneck and succeded, but it was mainly thanks to people who knew about this solution. So until such a day I'll keep this set up, since it is first meant to be a budget one eliminating the need for CPU O.C and keeping the whole thing under warranty as well. Next stage when I got the dosh and opportunity will be to replace my GTX 1080Ti which is very good I must say but is the source of one bottleneck because this CPU is capable of handling a 3080 without any problem and still the GPU would be the source of bootleneck, although way below 10%, then go back to VR with one of the new kits.
  13. In their reply to me, MSI mentioned this particular point and there is no notion of optimum set ups there only ballance between latency and memory frequency, what you guys mention are possible settings not what works best with the new Ryzen. All of them have simular controllers limits, and if I am not sure about Intel, you can bet that if they mention a maximum frequency of 3200MHz it is for a good reason, there is a limit as they say, to what those controllers can cope with, the higher the frequency and rank number, the lower the limit. And I forgot to mention the fact that those possible settingd are for gamers using this Cl14/1 X rank kind of RAM, preferably B.Die because the chips are more stable and allow for a tighter control of frequencies and settings. IF their processor is good enough to take the extra speed (for the exact same CPU not all of them perform the same), then they can think of O.C, but AMD not only doesn't recommand it but also it nulify your warranty.
  14. As I keep saying, it all depends on how much your CPU controller can handle, how many stick you have, how many ranks per sticks, CPU load etc, the more of it, the deeper the issue and playing DCS comes with its range of issues, not heavy RAM use which makes faster frequencies and anything more than 32GB unnecessary, but heavier than average, heavy CPU load under some scenarios. Under those conditions your CPU controller will struggle to cope with the amount of data it has to process especially at higher frequencies. Those are the limits. The Ryzen RAM-to-CPU bound not only determine how fast your CPU can run, but also how much it will restrict the buses speed, reason why I also gained 1.33% in GPU performances with this simple RAM swap, none of the buses were hold back after that and the only remaining limitations I get are my GPU bottleneck and thermal limits. MSI and AMD specified to me that the controller will throttle back above its limits and those are 3200MHz and 4 ranks, you might fit higher frequencies RAM and notice a small gain at moderate load but under heavy load (gaming) it will throttle back when a better bound will not. So that leads me to think that if his Ryzen 9 5900X can give some good results at medium settings during bench tests, when it comes to DCS it's a completely different story, reason why I never test-bech a low-to-mid settings but 4K 3840 x 2160 (16:9) (4K) MSAA x 2, that's the closest one can get to DCS requierements with a benchmark. What people want to do out of those specs is not the manufacturers problem but that of those who chose to push their CPU controller beyhond its limits because it is fashionable, more to it, I speak with experience, my PC had a RAM-to-CPU bottleneck resulting in a loss of 6.04% in CPU speed with a 2 X 2 ranks 3200MHz Cl16 kit. Now I don't have this bottleneck, simply by swaping RAM from Cl16 to 14 with the same frequency and the same number of ranks. only the number of sticks changes and the quality of the chips (B.Die), and the fact that this kit can make better use of interleaving, It's not rocket science and everyone should comprehend this simple math. So how much do you think his CPU is losing with Cl 18 RAM if my Cl16 was losing 6.04% to Cl14? That's the commercial thing, not the AMD enthusiast choice. Did you notice that RAM manufacturers rarely mention ther latency and numberr of ranks in their advertising? One of the reason is that people buy RAM like cookies and have no clue if it fits their CPU in the first place, it got nothing to do with performances. Same here, good luck increasing your CPU performances by 6.04% this way: You need to limit the number of ranks per stick to one in a 4 X sticks configuration and 2 in a 2 X sticks configuration, in any case, at high load, the little frequency gain you made is nulified when the CPU throttle back, after that people will spash dosh in a liquid cooler to gain less than 50% of what gain one can get from this sort of RAM kits. In his case, it's not Cl16, it's Cl18, if you look at 6.04% gain in performances for - Minus 2 Cl per stick you end up with a hit of above 12% under load, and again, I reiterate, it's UNDER LOAD not moderate load what you're doing spreasheets, it is what is relevant to gamers in general, not mainstream average PC user. That's providing he has a motherboard supporting more than two channels, not mentioning the RAM sticks themselves, the standard is 2, the real issue is the number of ranks per stick and a maximum of 4 ranks. What they don't tell you if you don't ask: "and also officially supported memory speed by AMD decrease accodingly"
  15. So is DELL, yet you end up with a PC running with a £359.99 Cl18 RAM kit above recommanded manufacturer (AMD) frequency (3200MHz) and which was shiped to you with the wrong BIOS settings, the only positive for your CPU with this RAM kit is that it can't be more than 4 ranks IF it is the two stick, but at 3600MHz, it's already throttled down by the controller... Chances are they cram those Cl 18 kits into their bundles because they can't sell them otherwise, Corsair advertises a Cl 16 kit, not Cl 18 but I was right to recommand that you check your BIOS in the first place, people who build those bundles don't give a damned about performances, they do not optimize those PCs, they sell them, it's not a simple mistake. That's precisely why I don't trust anyone but myself when it comes to mine, and you guys keep posting frequencies which basically mean nothing when running a Ryzen designed for low latency, chances are your RAM kit is slower than a 32GB Cl14 3200MHz kit even at a higher frequency and double the amount of RAM, that's not how those CPU works. Now, run 3D Mark Pro Fire Strike Ultra 4K gaming with DirectX 11 3840 x 2160 (16:9) (4K) MSAA x 2 and see if you obtain the performances gain you can expect from your Ryzen 5900X, that would be 1% lower latency, 3% faster on single core... CPU-Z is free btw, it will tell you exactly what is going on during the test. https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html Here are AMD specs and recommanded frequency for your CPU and it is UP TO 3200MHz, perhaps those trustworthy people can explain to you why they think they know better and fit a Cl18 kit above this frequency into your PC? https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-5900x Now, in the future, after this experience, you will remember that there is a difference between a consumer and a PC user, this industry sells to consumer stuff they don't need, like frequencies above the CPU manufacturers best tested speeds and there is only one reason for this: It makes them make money, those who had it with being consumers and decided to get the best of their PCs look at the specs of the parts first and bound their RAM to their CPUs. At least, G.Skill are half-honnest when they say that they manufacture their 3600MHz + kits "for those who want them"...
  16. To be honnest, it took me month of request emails to AMD, MSI and later on G.Skill to figure this one out, I was first put on track by an advanced AMD user on the MSI forum, yes it is tedious and perhaps the reason why people don't bother looking further than increasing the number of sticks and/or frequency. But this approach with these Ryzen is logical, they were conceived to take advantage of low latency RAM. Personally I took a different approach than O.C, because I do not have the budget to replace RAM, CPU or GPU and believe me, I did BBQed some in the past, I also saw how DELL shiped me the last PC I purchased in 2011, all BIOS settings were set to default, at least I know my PC upside down because I put it together myself and set it up. So this solution looks the best in view of my budget and research of performances at 4K (VR), as it offers more than twice the gain I could expect with fitting a liquid cooler to my 5600X with little difference in cost when it comes to the Premium you pay for those kits, I'll go through the same process for a Nex-Gen future PC, in a few years time. All I do now is to pass on the informations gathered and obtained from manufacturers but it wasn't obvious, hope it help anyway. Samsung B-die memory B-Die Finder &nbsp;Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more. I'm not sure how much you can rely on this but this is one of my CPU-Z tests results.
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