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-   -   New 2020 update sounds great! (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260618)

Flarpt 01-13-2020 02:25 AM

New 2020 update sounds great!
 
Like last year's new year kick off update about 2019's planned features the 2020 Update article was a good solid read. Much to look forward too.☺ IF, as they post, they release some of these efforts. I sure hope so. How great the FUN will be☺!

I notice that Vulkan API implementation was brought up finally for the first time in a great many months. But just as it was in 2018 and briefly again in 2019. Now we are in 2020 and maybe it might be this year once again? That's simply not acceptable guys. Sorry☺.

I can only assume that if Vulkan was really coming anytime in the next 6 to 8 months that ED would narrow it down to at the very least, "Later this year". But the way this is worded, with the Caveat at the beginning of the article, it is pretty much what we saw in 2018 & 2019.
That is, "Maybe this year, but not promised." Just not good enough at all.

I have begun basing my investing for 2020 solidly upon the Vulkan api actually being released, and or EXTENSIVE upgrades literally released to the core engine really-really enabling the Sim to really run well on my RTX 2080 system.
So, IF these conditions are met then I will invest further in DCS World. IF these conditions are not met then the F-16 was the last thing I ever invested in.

And that was pre-order and much regretted still as far as VR goes. The plane before that was the Yak. And as Yak owners know, all of 2019 was spent awaiting the Yak to be fixed so that the LODS would allow it run the way it should have in late 2018. That is, run really sweet like the Harrier did just after its release. Beautifully wrought aircraft that Harrier module is☺!

I love DCS World. And I want to love it more. But based on this last decade's unbroken chain of unfulfilled & dropped goals I am not hopeful anymore, and have not been for a long time now. And I am finally unwilling to invest further any longer. Buying newer and newer equipment just for a new map or Core feature to nerf it is not acceptable. Maybe this year is not acceptable.

Please ED, turn things around. The core for me, and most I have read, has not really improved during ALL of 2019 to be kindly honest as can be, especially in VR. Most maps are a stutterfest. Most forum postings and MP chatter are about trying to improve performance through some tweak since ED has not really done this for us paying customers again in 2019.

I want to be 100% committed and investing again, but it takes two to Tango. I already turned away from the last 4 sales due to the same dreaded performance issues we ALL suffered through in 2017 and 2018 and 2019.....

I sure hope things get turned around soon. I am rooting for ED's success. ED's success is everyone's success!☺ I am hopeful that the 2020 Update sees 100% daylight this year☺.

But I have learned not to hold my breath, and I am checking back in and flying DCS less and less every month. I don't want to write this. I only want to be excited and flying and bragging on beauty and framerates. But who among us average under $6K PC owners can honestly do that these last several years? I hope for success for us all in 2020.

Lao Fei Mao 01-13-2020 05:24 AM

Your hope is everyone's hope, but I am not optimistic about all the goals ED've set. Improving core needs manpower, but make no money. New module needs manpower, and have income. So ED gotta balance between them.

Flarpt 01-14-2020 01:28 AM

Hi Lao Fei Mao
I agree, thank you.

It is my opinion that for the last few years the vast bulk of ED's entire efforts has been really ONLY towards payware profits and beauty advertising to rake in more $$, and I mean only. Patches have come out regularly, but nothing to write home about in ANY of them for over a year...
Little more than hotpatches here and there and very minor system or bug fixes... Not serious actual upgrades.. Nothing worth investing in anymore for me and apparently many others to be blunt.. I wasn't even going to gamble on the Christian 2 plane on sale not being yet another unfinished, and unoptomized and nearly unflyable Yak waste of money...

Honestly, the only real performance increases I have really seen in two years has been my own upgrading from a 1070ti to an RTX 2080. And this has been such a MINOR improvement as to be a total waste of money.
The attitude I get from ED and other diehard fans with super-PC rigs, is that if you want better performance then buy a better rig.... Uh, no, my sim rig handles VERY WELL EVERYTHING thrown at it today EXCEPT DCS...
* So it is DCS that needs to INVEST MORE of their $$$ into DCS, not little ole me☺.

So outdated and bogged down is DCS's core is that it literally is crushed to death under its own weight. DCS cannot really run as 'advertised' unless on an exorbitantly overpriced and overpowered super gaming PC.

DCS is ancient, un-optimized and runs so many extraneous and leaky plumbing fixtures as to be clogged at every union to the point where nothing flows or drains anywhere at the tap. DCS has become a Frankenstein monstrosity of archaic code whose sole purpose is literally ONLY to showcase what it can do on Youtube >IF< you have $6K++ invested into a PC rig.

DCS is not made with an average PC's hardware in mind. And by this I mean PC's that are capable of running DOOM or GT5 or ANY other modern graphically wondrous title very well.

Herein is where the fanboys assault me claiming that DCS core is all about deep and heavy flight dynamics, complicated systems and other weighty computation monsters... You know, the things that all PC's excel at.... >yawn<

No, because other modern 64 bit flight Sims can run things beautifully and smoothly, even with emphasis on flight dynamics & complex systems etc...
XPlane 11.5 is almost releasing Vulkan API as we speak and boasting of dramatic fps improvements... Yet MAYBE Ed might possible get around to it this year is all they will commit to after some 6 months++ of silence on it?
Too little too late. Ship sailed when this was the exact care level of ED this time last year..

It is ONLY DCS right now that has not been invested in by ED as far as updating it to modern multi-core PC's by utilizing modern tech like Vulkan.

The world moved on in 2018. Other Flight Sims released massive updates and improvements all year. Like XPlane's upcoming Vulkan patch.. DCS added payware all year. That's about it. My Yak still doesn't fly without stutters on ANY settings... And Nevada, middle East and Caucus are more stuttery than ever...

IF I ran my business like ED has I'd be living under a bridge over a year ago. You just don't string your clientele along milking them so hard without feeding them... Anyway, I am not giving ANY milk anymore, I am considering just moving on and most likely cutting my losses and regaining my HD space back for other Sim titles that do run well.

Perhaps one day I will see a Youtube video exclaiming that DCS is now Vulkan or under new management and actually modernized. But I am already well into my 50's so once again based on ED's performance over the last decade I am not going to be holding my breath for it.
Rante Concluded. For now☺

MADLOU1 01-14-2020 05:33 AM

DCS cant please everybody, Flarpt. And it seems you need to leave DCS alone since you feel so bad about it. You act as if you are married to the game and are struggling with whether you should get a divorce LOL. I love DCS and apparently many many others do. But its not for everybody. Its not perfect and no game is. Im old enough to remember when there were no computers or game consoles of any kind in the average home. I can remember when the very first "flight simulators" came out on the first "home computers." The planes were really not much more than blocky stick figures but boy did we aviation enthusiasts appreciate them because that was all we had. Yes, we all could have griped and complained and perhaps move the game industry to abandon making flight simulations altogether forever. If that happened where would we be today? Technology has come a long long way since then and Im grateful for DCS and all the other game developers for what enjoyment they bring us. I say stop griping and focus on having fun, with whatever games give you pleasure.

[Maverick] 01-14-2020 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flarpt (Post 4173274)
IF I ran my business like ED has I'd be living under a bridge over a year ago. You just don't string your clientele along milking them so hard without feeding them...


Speak for yourself, I and many many others adore this game and get 1000s of hours of entertainment out of it every year, year on year. It's no way near as bad as you make out.


Our community is growing everyday and DCS is getting better and better.


Cool story tho ;)

Snappy 01-14-2020 08:22 AM

Well Flarpt has a valid point though in regards to the core software being not very efficient/optimized for current technologies (i.e. not making use of more cores etc etc) and I also tend to agree that by now its so patched up and bandaided that I can‘t see a way to get it de-tangled and streamlined without a complete or at least major rewrite.

Not seldom I get the impression that this alone is becoming more and more of a problem of it‘s own, as these patches seem to have the tendency to break other things, which then need patching in return, but don‘t get it because coding ressources are needed for money earning-new modules.
So the spiral continues.


Yes I know , Nick Grey‘s post about more 50% of staff working on the core...but then again it makes me wonder why so many bugs and issues seemingly languish for month and years despite being reported again and again.

Plus, some of the newly announced features (e.g. new weather,A.I.) will put even more computational load on the already inefficient hardware usage.


Maybe ED will cater more and more to the small crowd that can throw money at ultrapotent PC systems to compensate for the engine in order to enjoy MP or complex missions.

Thats ok , if they can make enough money that way, why shouldn’t they.

Don‘t get me wrong, I do enjoy flying in DCS a lot , but I‘m definitely worried about the direction it seems to take, in several ways actually.In the end, its ED‘s train set and they get to decide what to do with it


Regards,


Snappy

umland 01-14-2020 11:16 AM

@Flarpt

pls calm down. Matt and the whole Dev Team does really an amazing job.
We must be patience, there is a lot of to do. Never seen a product which
is comparable like DCS with that complexiblity, api and superior Graphics.
I am sure that they will increase the performance with vulcan and more
attached cpu cores. Keep in mind its not so easy to program the whole
threads and paralism in c++

>>DCS is not made with an average PC's hardware in mind.
If you want to fly a professional Sim than you must have the hardware for that.
Its my opinon.

Whine about the current state of DCS is the wrong way.

Hope they keep the good work up. I am really pleased that ED try's to give us
a Simulator like this

Greets,
Michael




Quote:

Originally Posted by Flarpt (Post 4173274)
Hi Lao Fei Mao
I agree, thank you.

It is my opinion that for the last few years the vast bulk of ED's entire efforts has been really ONLY towards payware profits and beauty advertising to rake in more $$, and I mean only. Patches have come out regularly, but nothing to write home about in ANY of them for over a year...
Little more than hotpatches here and there and very minor system or bug fixes... Not serious actual upgrades.. Nothing worth investing in anymore for me and apparently many others to be blunt.. I wasn't even going to gamble on the Christian 2 plane on sale not being yet another unfinished, and unoptomized and nearly unflyable Yak waste of money...

Honestly, the only real performance increases I have really seen in two years has been my own upgrading from a 1070ti to an RTX 2080. And this has been such a MINOR improvement as to be a total waste of money.
The attitude I get from ED and other diehard fans with super-PC rigs, is that if you want better performance then buy a better rig.... Uh, no, my sim rig handles VERY WELL EVERYTHING thrown at it today EXCEPT DCS...
* So it is DCS that needs to INVEST MORE of their $$$ into DCS, not little ole me☺.

So outdated and bogged down is DCS's core is that it literally is crushed to death under its own weight. DCS cannot really run as 'advertised' unless on an exorbitantly overpriced and overpowered super gaming PC.

DCS is ancient, un-optimized and runs so many extraneous and leaky plumbing fixtures as to be clogged at every union to the point where nothing flows or drains anywhere at the tap. DCS has become a Frankenstein monstrosity of archaic code whose sole purpose is literally ONLY to showcase what it can do on Youtube >IF< you have $6K++ invested into a PC rig.

DCS is not made with an average PC's hardware in mind. And by this I mean PC's that are capable of running DOOM or GT5 or ANY other modern graphically wondrous title very well.

Herein is where the fanboys assault me claiming that DCS core is all about deep and heavy flight dynamics, complicated systems and other weighty computation monsters... You know, the things that all PC's excel at.... >yawn<

No, because other modern 64 bit flight Sims can run things beautifully and smoothly, even with emphasis on flight dynamics & complex systems etc...
XPlane 11.5 is almost releasing Vulkan API as we speak and boasting of dramatic fps improvements... Yet MAYBE Ed might possible get around to it this year is all they will commit to after some 6 months++ of silence on it?
Too little too late. Ship sailed when this was the exact care level of ED this time last year..

It is ONLY DCS right now that has not been invested in by ED as far as updating it to modern multi-core PC's by utilizing modern tech like Vulkan.

The world moved on in 2018. Other Flight Sims released massive updates and improvements all year. Like XPlane's upcoming Vulkan patch.. DCS added payware all year. That's about it. My Yak still doesn't fly without stutters on ANY settings... And Nevada, middle East and Caucus are more stuttery than ever...

IF I ran my business like ED has I'd be living under a bridge over a year ago. You just don't string your clientele along milking them so hard without feeding them... Anyway, I am not giving ANY milk anymore, I am considering just moving on and most likely cutting my losses and regaining my HD space back for other Sim titles that do run well.

Perhaps one day I will see a Youtube video exclaiming that DCS is now Vulkan or under new management and actually modernized. But I am already well into my 50's so once again based on ED's performance over the last decade I am not going to be holding my breath for it.
Rante Concluded. For now☺


kotor633 01-14-2020 11:52 AM

I also think the whole thing reads very, very well. There is a lot we can look forward to in 2020 and beyond. I am very excited about the implementation of the Vulkan API, I am VERY happy that the helicopter modules are moving forward and the new, free island map also looks like a treat.
2 other highlights I think are the planned improvements in weather and clouds and the finally long-awaited further development of the ATC. This should then be implemented even more realistically.

jcbak 01-14-2020 12:10 PM

FLARPT....I would like to know what other flight sims are running so smoothly and beautifully. It CERTAINLY isn't X-Plane. Their VULKAN version hasn't been released and according to Laminar Research, should only provide a 10% increase in performance. XP performance issues cause huge issues on the VATSIM network to a point where you will get automatically kicked if your FPS drop below 20 fps. P3D isn't any better performance-wise. DCS runs much smoother than both and I'm sure there are good reasons....I don't mean to knock XP or P3D but to say they run better than DCS......it's quite the opposite. What are high end PCs now will be low end in short time. No point in writing software for older machines....and I have an old machine.

Gunnar81 01-14-2020 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Maverick] (Post 4173385)
Speak for yourself, I and many many others adore this game and get 1000s of hours of entertainment out of it every year, year on year. It's no way near as bad as you make out.


Our community is growing everyday and DCS is getting better and better.


Cool story tho ;)

Agree with this right here! :thumbup:


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