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-   Western Europe 1944-1945 (https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=340)
-   -   The Battle of the Stretch Goal (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114788)

Vijar 09-30-2013 10:13 AM

ED-Newsletter:
If Eagle would do you the big favour of sending out an official email-newsletter about the Kickstarter, you coud reach the many DCS-players who don't read forums.


1. A killer video:
All that really counts for getting media coverage is an impressive MAIN-Kickstarter-video + screenshots + good project description. Screenshots and description for DCS WWII 1944 are good, the main-video is the problem.

Impressive video = good in-game-graphics (maybe with a little bit of post-processing added) + good music / sound effects + a short story that immediately captures the interest of the guy who's watching.

Of course this can't be done in just a few days as it's expensive and time consuming, but you may want to have something similar at hands for further pre-sales of WWII 1944 through your own website. Examples:
a) https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=WpgUuGunU0o
b) http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=VE8B4KptyVI


2. New rewards:
Main focus now should be to get existing backers to spend more.

So maybe it would make sense to introduce a new tier / tiers that gets you any future content / aircraft for DCS:WWII for free. At a high price tag you wouldn't give away much future sales because people willing to give that much for your Kickstarter are going to spend anyway, I guess.

You could also split this up at different price tags:
- All future aircraft for DCS:WWII free
- All future aircraft and maps for DCS:WWII free
- All future aircraft and maps for DCS:WWII free + Alpha and Beta access

Just meant as an example, but don't make it to cheap if you go for it. http://forums.eagle.ru/images/smilies/smile.gif


3. Taking PayPal:
A must-have if it's possible.


4. Changes to project features:
Only one flyable aircraft at DCS-level for free - if you sell your product too cheap people are going to think it's low quality.
Quote:

$1 NEW and $10 NEW: rewards as before, but no additional aircraft (one flyable total)
$20 NEW: access to one additional release aircraft (two total)
$30 NEW: access to two additional release aircraft (three total)
$40 NEW: access to three additional release aircraft (four total)
$60 NEW: access to ALL additional release aircraft (six total if we get the Me.262)
Sounds good, but makes the pledges a bit more complicated (we already have quite a few ;))
I definitely wouldn't give 3 full-DCS aircraft away for $1 - that's way too cheap.


5. Stretch goals:
- A flyable Me.262 as first stretch goal is optimal in my opinion as it is cost-efficient to do, maybe appeals more to the modern-plane/jet-people and adds more variation than another prop-plane.
- Next best thing would be a flyable B-17, but too costly at the moment.


6. Future training / fun plane:
Maybe something like the Fieseler Storch? :)


Most Kickstarters get most of their money during the first and the last few days - so keep up your good work! :thumbup:

Linx 09-30-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonys (Post 1890283)
I'm not sure that a 40$/50$ pledge grants the DCS WWII P51-D and FW190-D9 though..

So, $40 pledge gives you the free starter plane plus Spitfire and Bf-109?
But so does the $1 pledge?

Wait, what?

Vardin 09-30-2013 10:22 AM

I have not backed this Kickstarter yet. I am undecided as to whether I will. I also agree that three free dcs level aircraft is to many. I think non backers should get to choose one of the three release aircraft.

I do think however that the one free aircraft should be a fully capable fighter if you want to attract new blood into the hardcore flight sim genre. Rise of flight gives away one free fighter and it has worked well for that game. I would suggest that you get the three aircraft only if you back at the $40 or above pledge level.

hegykc 09-30-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylkhan (Post 1890336)
A promise IS a promise

You are correct.

Hold him to that promise, and the team loses hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Dollars that could pay for development of many, many new modules and features.
Do you want a free game lacking some critical features, and the team unable to continue development at a certain rate and quality because they have no means of revenue? Just because they promised something for free based on an assumption that people would give them money anyway?

It was a nice gesture, why punish them for it.

gavagai 09-30-2013 10:30 AM

Do I read this right? The idea is to change the KS so that hundreds of people get less than what they were told they would get at the start of the KS for their pledge?

That is...pretty bad? Well, I guess they have a chance to change their pledges. Don't assume that people will automatically increase their pledges. Some might even decrease them.

Be happy the $100k was reached. Make a good product. Then people will spend more $.

Linx 09-30-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luthier1 (Post 1889971)
All right, what a lively discussion.
Won't muddy the waters with updated pledges. We were happy to give those planes away for free to everyone, so giving them to backers who pledge $1 is no problem at all.

Can somebody please explain this to me?

Havner 09-30-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavagai (Post 1890362)
Do I read this right? The idea is to change the KS so that hundreds of people get less than what they were told they would get at the start of the KS for their pledge?

You get this wrong. The only change that was proposed in this regard was to give non backers less. So it would be an incentive for them to pledge. All current and futures pledges will get what was promised. Read carefully next time. It's stated clearly.

hegykc 09-30-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavagai (Post 1890362)
Do I read this right? The idea is to change the KS so that hundreds of people get less than what they were told they would get at the start of the KS for their pledge?

Wrong! Everyone who pledged gets exactly what was promised to them.

Those who didn't pledge, get one plane for free, pay for the rest


Quote:

Originally Posted by gavagai (Post 1890362)
Be happy the $100k was reached. Make a good product. Then people will spend more $.

Spend $ on what?? As it is now, you get everything you could possibly spend time on for the next couple of years, for free.

airdoc 09-30-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavagai (Post 1890362)
Do I read this right? The idea is to change the KS so that hundreds of people get less than what they were told they would get at the start of the KS for their pledge?

That is...pretty bad? Well, I guess they have a chance to change their pledges. Don't assume that people will automatically increase their pledges. Some might even decrease them.

Be happy the $100k was reached. Make a good product. Then people will spend more $.

Ilya stated in the kickstarter page, that ALL backers up to now will get what they were initially promised. Nothing changes for them. Even the guys with 1$ pledge will get 3 flyables.
So it seems like a good idea for people who haven't already pledged, to do so very soon, before the KS changes are implemented.

DD_Crash 09-30-2013 10:35 AM

As far as I am aware your pledge reward is fixed at the level you pledged. New pledges or increased pledges would be at the new level. But I could be wrong. Its a shame that this thread wasnt started BEFORE the kickstart was confirmed. Still if Luthier has a website for further pledges ALL IS NOT LOST :)

hegykc 09-30-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdoc (Post 1890367)
Even the guys with 1$ pledge will get 3 flyables.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It doesn't say that in the description of the 1$ pledge.

It says 3 free planes in the goal description, and that can change as far as I understand?

To make the planes payware, and then make them available for a 1$ pledge would be another shot in the foot.

airdoc 09-30-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linx (Post 1890363)
Can somebody please explain this to me?

Backers at the 1$ level, did so on the promise of 3 free flyables with the game. If that is going to change, and only 1 will be free, then these guys will still get 3 planes for 1$.

Roadrunner 09-30-2013 10:40 AM

sorry if someone posted it before, but i just lack the time to read 12 pages right now, so here is my opinion:

saying it at this time is easy, i know, but after following this project since start, i think you should have made the 109, spit and p-47 as modules for DCS:World, selling them regulary. after the release of those, a kickstarter for a wonderfull map and AI WWII crafts, followed by playable stuff at the stretch goals would have made a difference. those three modules would have given money, and not a small account, as many people are waiting for a spit and a 109, and you could have focused after that on a map and stretch goal items.

even more you could have waited with this for edge to be released, dont know the internal state of edge, but wouldnt have been bad anyway.

i also think it would have taken away a lot of the confusion that was generated as well.

yes, its easy to say now, 5 days before KS end, but who knows for what good this opinion is.

airdoc 09-30-2013 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hegykc (Post 1890371)
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It doesn't say that in the description of the 1$ pledge.

It says 3 free planes in the goal description, and that can change as far as I understand?

To make the planes payware, and then make them available for a 1$ pledge would be another shot in the foot.

I don't think that it will be. Obviously, there is a lot more to lose if ilya changes what he promised to the people who have already backed, even at 1$. They are not that many, so it's a better move to keep his initial promise to them and give them 3 free flyables than to lose his credibility.

Only new backers will get 1 free flyable at the 1$ level. Not the existing ones. If he took these planes away from them (existing backers), it would be a disaster for his image.

Bucic 09-30-2013 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sylkhan (Post 1890339)
Why LUTHIERS didn't realize this, before his KS

What do you mean?

hegykc 09-30-2013 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdoc (Post 1890375)
I don't think that it will be. Obviously, there is a lot more to lose if ilya changes what he promised to the people who have already backed, even at 1$. They are not that many, so it's a better move to keep his initial promise to them and give them 3 free flyables than to lose his credibility.

Only new backers will get 1 free flyable at the 1$ level. Not the existing ones. If he took these planes away from them (existing backers), it would be a disaster for his image.

Oh. So lock the old 1$ pledge, sort of an early bird special? Make the new 1$ with 1 free flyable. Yeah I can see that working. Thereby loosing only 36 sets of planes.

Vijar 09-30-2013 10:47 AM

Both $0 and $1 for three full-DCS aircraft is way too cheap, it makes people feel those planes are almost worthless, like in World of Tanks or War Thunder.

Bucic 09-30-2013 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havner (Post 1890364)
You get this wrong. The only change that was proposed in this regard was to give non backers less. So it would be an incentive for them to pledge. All current and futures pledges will get what was promised. Read carefully next time. It's stated clearly.

I think we'll have to repeat this many times.

airdoc 09-30-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hegykc (Post 1890382)
Oh. So lock the old 1$ pledge, sort of an early bird special? Make the new 1$ with 1 free flyable. Yeah I can see that working. Thereby loosing only 36 sets of planes.

exactly.
Again, this means, it's time for people who haven't pledge to pledge now.
With only one free flyable coming up, this means that it would cost over 100$ to buy the remaining 4 (or 5 if we hit the stretch).
Whereas you can get them for 40$ now.

sylkhan 09-30-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucic (Post 1890377)
What do you mean?

I mean 3 aircrafts at DCS level is a lot of work, Giving them for free was ..strange, very strange.
He had to think twice.
Reading all these changes make me wonder if this guy really knows his stuff. He seems to be in the darkness :)

SlipBall 09-30-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdoc (Post 1890395)
exactly.
Again, this means, it's time for people who haven't pledge to pledge now.
With only one free flyable coming up, this means that it would cost over 100$ to buy the remaining 4 (or 5 if we hit the stretch).
Whereas you can get them for 40$ now.


I think he said this will probably happen after he wakes up from sleeping, later in the day

JackDant 09-30-2013 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hegykc (Post 1890312)
The goal is to have a free option to explore the game with some limitation. Not have a full WWII scenario that would keep you busy for years to come.

The goal is to have a successful game and platform that attracts the highest possible number of customers who keep buying extra modules/DLCs for years.

For that, ideally, you would want at least one free plane for each side so the online scenarios remain balanced. If that's not possible, I think it would be better to make the whole thing a paid module. Then, as with RoF (or even DCS), you can go free to play with the base planes later on, when they have a solid offering of extra planes.

MACADEMIC 09-30-2013 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadrunner (Post 1890374)
sorry if someone posted it before, but i just lack the time to read 12 pages right now, so here is my opinion:

saying it at this time is easy, i know, but after following this project since start, i think you should have made the 109, spit and p-47 as modules for DCS:World, selling them regulary. after the release of those, a kickstarter for a wonderfull map and AI WWII crafts, followed by playable stuff at the stretch goals would have made a difference. those three modules would have given money, and not a small account, as many people are waiting for a spit and a 109, and you could have focused after that on a map and stretch goal items.

even more you could have waited with this for edge to be released, dont know the internal state of edge, but wouldnt have been bad anyway.

i also think it would have taken away a lot of the confusion that was generated as well.

yes, its easy to say now, 5 days before KS end, but who knows for what good this opinion is.

Still not too late for that. Ilya can cancel the whole Kickstarter and proceed this way without owing anything to anyone. Selling the three warbirds within DCS World at full price would easily make so much revenue that he wouldn't need another Kickstarter to finance his WWII project.

MAC

hegykc 09-30-2013 11:05 AM

Yeah that would work wonders for the stretch goal, AND for further revenue.

So lock that old 1$ pledge before it's too late :)

A little confession though, I immediately pledged 1$, but I'm changing to 40$ as soon as the man wakes up :)

On a side note, I used a Visa debit card with 0$ on it, or I should better say a slightly negative balance, and it worked without a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackDant (Post 1890401)
the highest possible number of customers who keep buying extra modules/DLCs for years.

And in order to have a team making those extra modules, they need money. Money they're not getting with 3 free planes. One is plenty. Even on a Su-25 level, so no 6dof, no clickable cockpit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC (Post 1890405)
Still not too late for that. Ilya can cancel the whole Kickstarter and proceed this way without owing anything to anyone. Selling the three warbirds within DCS World at full price would easily make so much revenue that he wouldn't need another Kickstarter to finance his WWII project.

MAC

Man oh man, I knew that all the secrecy about the announcement was gonna come around and bite him in the ass. I hope it's a lesson for all the future teams. Come out as soon as possible. Discuss the plan with the community, take the guess work completely out of the picture.
Where else are you gonna find customers complaining about stuff being free...

USA_Recon 09-30-2013 11:19 AM

First off, the game shouldn't be free. The money earned pays the developers and provides funds to continue building more aircraft, etc... This is a no brainer. I'm not pledging the money I did so that free loaders could have a great free WW2 game. I pledged the money because I wanted to see this become a reality. For instance, the p51 and upcoming 190 should be purchased. I picked up the p51 for $19, same goes for the 190. The base game should cost at least $40.

Secondly, additional 'stretch goals' should be new kickstarter programs. RR Studio's need to show they can now deliver. I pledged knowing I'd get a (1) map and (2) p47, 109, spitfire. I thought at one point we'd have a flyable b17, but I see that wasn't true. That is ok though, because at this point, after this 'base game' is created and sold (it needs to be sold for at least $40 pledge right???) then more content can be created and funded by additional kickstarter programs.

The reason this is good, is kickstarter funding for content will continue to let the community decide what is next... ie. if you need another $100k to do a B17, start a funding project, if you meet that goal you'll know it's going to be created.

It's important for many reasons that RR studio first prove it can deliver on it's promises, as there is a trust factor here. I'm expecting this team to deliver WW2 game with a Normandy map and 3 planes. When this is done and proven, as I said, it will make funding for more content easy.

For a game with a small base, this should keep things moving.

In summary, charge for the base, at least $40. No free loaders. Use additional kickstarter projects to fund addon WW2 aircraft/features.

My 2 cents :)

9./JG27 DavidRed 09-30-2013 11:21 AM

im also of the opinion that the three announced planes are certainly pretty much on top of the "most wanted" list.i think they will struggle with future modules to get such a revenue they could gather with those three types...

Cnuke 09-30-2013 11:22 AM

I think we could let everything to rest in this discussion.

This kickstarter is practically over. He either need the funds as promised and return his promises, and think of a smart way himself to do some promotional stunts!
It's been all here in this community, ideas from the start to help him fund the project. We all want this to be good in quality, I guess as community we do what we can. And it's the best community I ever been into.

The projectleader, needs to show leadership not confusion.

Take the route after the kickstarter to maintain vision and start finding additional funds/sponsorships. PR, competitions and it's marketexposure.

Oversee this is gonna be delivered as the DCS quality WWII sim with massive online fun gameplay. As it will stand out in the sim world, and beyond!

Challenging task but perfect for passion driven persons.

dburne 09-30-2013 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cnuke (Post 1890433)
I think we could let everything to rest in this discussion.

This kickstarter is practically over. He either need the funds as promised and return his promises, and think of a smart way himself to do some promotional stunts!
It's been all here in this community, ideas from the start to help him fund the project. We all want this to be good in quality, I guess as community we do what we can. And it's the best community I ever been into.

The projectleader, needs to show leadership not confusion.

Agreed.

Linx 09-30-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdoc (Post 1890372)
Backers at the 1$ level, did so on the promise of 3 free flyables with the game. If that is going to change, and only 1 will be free, then these guys will still get 3 planes for 1$.

Thanks for the clarification.
And we the $40 backers get all three of them plus any extra ones on the release?

airdoc 09-30-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linx (Post 1890444)
Thanks for the clarification.
And we the $40 backers get all three of them plus any extra ones on the release?

Yep.


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