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-   -   The Battle of the Stretch Goal (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114788)

9./JG27 DavidRed 09-29-2013 11:08 PM

well, accept paypal, make a killer video, and for the sake of the kickstarter, make only one of the three planes freeware...
i wanted to set up a poll which of the three ones should be the free plane, but im too stupid or tired or both to find out how i make a poll...anybody so kind?

159th_Falcon 09-29-2013 11:10 PM


Originally Posted by bongodriver (Post 1889905)

2. no free aircraft for non pledgers

3. a cute little trainer

4. do it now

job done!

Agree. though having a free aircraft, even a trainer may proof beneficial in the future.

Like the 25T is for DCS World.

Also, Point number four is important. The longer you wait the smaller change you will have.
You may want to think about changing the goals etc, but Paypal is pretty much guaranteed to be a succes.

Implement it NOW, don't wait till tomorrow cause it will be to late.

bongodriver 09-29-2013 11:11 PM


NoCarrier 09-29-2013 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by luthier1 (Post 1889689)
When I was just planning this kickstrter out, I really thought that we'd break through the base and end up meeting a whole bunch of the stretch goals. I really thought that we'd be building a much bigger project than what it looks like today.

Come on, Ilya, you have stretch goals set at several hundred thousand dollars. Several hundred thousand dollars worth of pledges for a new product in a genre that has basically become niche, as you yourself pointed out in one of your videos. If you take a look at the most succesful video game Kickstarter to date, you'll notice that the biggest ones raised about two million dollars, three million at the very maximum. All of them by developers with a widely recognized name in the video game industry. All of them in genres that are mainstream—RPGs, adventure games, and space combat games. I took one look at your stretch goals, and I knew your chances of making even one of them were pretty slim. I still pledged, but I'm sorry to say, I don't think you were very realistic in setting them.

Honestly, I think at this point you need to be realistic about the fact that you're not going to rake in another several hundred thousand dollars. Start thinking about how to squeeze every development second you can from the dollars that were pledged. Your Kickstarter campaign for a WWII combat flight simulator made it with a comfortable margin. That alone is a great accomplishment, and indicates that your name does carry some weight. It wasn't the promo material that convinced me, and I'm sure that goes for most of us.

Oh, and cut back on the number of free aircraft modules. No-one wants to feel like a sucker. But you knew that.

MACADEMIC 09-29-2013 11:24 PM


Originally Posted by hegykc (Post 1889897)
Oh I see. But that would be a breach of kickstarter rules?

Here's the list of things that can be changed and that can't from the KS 'Creator FAQs':

"Can a project be edited after launching?

Yes, you can edit the following content after launching:

— Project description

— Video and image

— Rewards (add new ones or edit those not yet backed)

— Your profile

— Project FAQs

The only things that cannot be edited after launch are:

— The funding goal

— The project deadline

— Your Kickstarter name

— Rewards that have already been selected by a backer"

The goal stated on DCS WWII: Europe 1944 is:

"The initial kickstarter goal is needed to fund a longer more extensive beta testing period for the game, giving all its components extra polish, and to make the game landscape more alive by creating a larger variety of ground objects and vehicles, and spending more time to hand-craft various historical areas such as accurate recreations of more coastline villages, important bridges, unique airfields, and more."

So while the free flyable aircraft to be included with the game as a free download is part of the project description, this description can be changed while leaving the original funding goal (above) intact (it's a tightrope act, I know, but if it's technically possible it's probably better than a cancellation, see below).

If such a change is based on an honest and openly publicised assessment of the situation, it is my opinion that most people will upheld their funding and the original funding goal will still be met. Others would be entirely free to withdraw their pledge.

The important thing here is to make such a change while the KS campaign is ongoing. Once it's finished and pledges are collected, the creator could make himself liable for refund and/or legal action if it turns out that he is unable to complete the project and deliver on the reward promises.

From the FAQ's:

"If I am unable to complete my project as promised, what should I do?

If you realize that you will be unable to follow through on your project before funding has ended, you are expected to cancel it. If your project is successfully funded, you are required to fulfill all rewards or refund any backer whose reward you do not or cannot fulfill. A failure to do so could result in damage to your reputation or even legal action by your backers.
To avoid problems, don't over-promise when creating your project. If issues arise, communicate immediately, openly, and honestly with your backers."


Vampyre 09-29-2013 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by Hans-Joachim Marseille (Post 1889882)
Oh my goodness ... capture the flag with flashing objects, no planes on initial release but trainers and the (by then) already established Mustang and Dora.
Any more ways to kill this game? Don't get me wrong; I like the idea of non-pledgers being able to fly around the free map in a trainer, but no additional planes on initial release for pledgers?

True, I for one believe the hook for this project to be a free flyable COMBAT aircraft. I will tell you that if I were trying out a new combat sim and the best I can hope to to accomplish is take off and land and hopefully not get shot down then I wouldn't bother with the rest of the game. If I don't even have anything to compete with when trying it out then i will go elsewhere. The free aircraft in DCS World (Su-25T) is a combat type. If you have a combat arena that is touted as such, you need a combat type to fully explore that world and have the full experience to make the decision to purchase other combat types that one would find of interest. I still fly the Su-25T even though I have most of the other modules as well. A trainer is of limited use in combat and will only draw the most hardcore of sim pilots which equates to low sales. The capture the flag and flashing objects idea... I surely hope not.

9./JG27 DavidRed 09-29-2013 11:30 PM


Lord_Pyro 09-29-2013 11:33 PM

To make a trailer it is too late, even if it would be rusehd out today the campaign is almost over.

Paypal would have been a good idea, i know some people who couldn't bake this project and were deliberately asking for paypal. Some of them got their selves a credit card, but not all of them. But again, it probably is a little bit too late to raise som 30k$ by this. But it's still worth a try.

ff4life4 09-29-2013 11:35 PM

Mac I agree with your assessment about the free aircraft. It would be a tightrope indeed especially with all the press surrounding Kickstarter at the moment.

The only issue I see is that while the free aircraft are in the product description, they are pretty much "deliverables" meaning that they are promised. The backers will all understand the change but non backers may not, and bad press could ensue causing significant issues.

This is an extreme idea, but what if they cancelled the KS campaign, took a few weeks to get their heads straight, and start over with another campaign. A campaign that is CLEAR about what the deliverables are, and what the stretch goals are. I'm also not sure that an ME 262 is the best stretch goal as I feel there may be more interested in another one of the WW2 aircraft.

Perhaps they could also produce more gameplay videos and screenshots of their work and not mostly of P51 and Dora which is being produced by ED. I know a campaign restart is very extreme but it may be the only option. Better than having this one complete and not have enough funds to satisfy the current deliverables and bury the project forever. And perhaps take the DCS name down as well.

Edit: Also don't get me wrong a campaign restart will have its backlashes as well, it just appears they are between a rock and a hard place. Either try to produce the deliverables with what appears to be too little funds, or have to suffer the repercussion of having a campaign restart.

MACADEMIC 09-29-2013 11:35 PM


Originally Posted by Hans-Joachim Marseille (Post 1889893)
Post #27, by MAC. Although I quite like the free trainer idea, not the below.

Of course it's a nice thought that $30 invested early would give you a total of 5 DCS level warbirds plus a free game. However in my opinion belongs to the category 'If something sounds too good to be true, it most likely isn't'. $6 per DCS level airplane is way too little money for the value.

I'd rather fund something that can be financially viable and has a chance to exist than an utopic dream. Even if I have to pay more to get those planes later on.


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