Just Ordered new RAM, Opinions on Future Upgrades

[Jetguy06]

Hey guys. My PC specs are currently as follows:

 

HP Omen

Intel i5-7400 @ 3.00GHz

8Gb (Two 4Gb sticks) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 RAM

Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 ti

 

I just bought a pair of 16GB Ripjaws V Series DDR4 RAM for a total of 32 GB (due in by Friday). I play with a Rift CV1, and experience mediocre frames, probably due to my graphics settings in game, but they're still tolerable for the most part. I think my biggest bottleneck is my processor for the moment.

 

The biggest problem I'm having is loading times to get in the 'pit, and once there, waiting for the sim to smooth out from loading before I can fly. On the Caucasus map, with few or no statics or AI, and flying a less-graphically-demanding aircraft like a Gaz, It takes a good two or three minutes to load in, plus probably 30-60 seconds after loading in to smooth out (I've never actually timed it, I'm just going off of estimations). I've only ever flown the Syria map once (in the Gaz), and that took over 5 minutes to load in. No statics or AI at all on that flight.

 

I'm realy hoping the jump to 32 GB will help my load times. It might even be a little overkill, but hey... I'll already have 32GB of RAM for when I upgrade from this PC.

 

Do you guys think the new RAM will impact loading times positively, or am I just wasting my time trying to upgrade a PC with the CPU as the bottleneck? I'm really not that tech savvy, so I'd like to hear some opinions. Thanks!!

[Thinder]

Hey guys. My PC specs are currently as follows:

 

HP Omen

Intel i5-7400 @ 3.00GHz

8Gb (Two 4Gb sticks) Ripjaws V Series DDR4 RAM

Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 ti

 

I just bought a pair of 16GB Ripjaws V Series DDR4 RAM for a total of 32 GB (due in by Friday). I play with a Rift CV1, and experience mediocre frames, probably due to my graphics settings in game, but they're still tolerable for the most part. I think my biggest bottleneck is my processor for the moment.

 

The biggest problem I'm having is loading times to get in the 'pit, and once there, waiting for the sim to smooth out from loading before I can fly. On the Caucasus map, with few or no statics or AI, and flying a less-graphically-demanding aircraft like a Gaz, It takes a good two or three minutes to load in, plus probably 30-60 seconds after loading in to smooth out (I've never actually timed it, I'm just going off of estimations). I've only ever flown the Syria map once (in the Gaz), and that took over 5 minutes to load in. No statics or AI at all on that flight.

 

I'm realy hoping the jump to 32 GB will help my load times. It might even be a little overkill, but hey... I'll already have 32GB of RAM for when I upgrade from this PC.

 

Do you guys think the new RAM will impact loading times positively, or am I just wasting my time trying to upgrade a PC with the CPU as the bottleneck? I'm really not that tech savvy, so I'd like to hear some opinions. Thanks!!

 

You can't expect much improvement from simply increasing RAM with those specs in VR but even if you can't spend much money there are ways to get there or there about, you'll need to provide us with more infos, which motherboard, BIOS and RAM speed would be useful.

 

You are below the minimum specs for VR. Realistically, you'll need 4.00GHz CPU and a 1080 Ti 11GB to get a relatively average performance in VR.

 

First of all you need the right motherboard, so it is important that you check your board specifications to see if it can take the gear you intend to purchase, I use AMD at the moment, mine cost me £99.99, is excellent for the price, with BIOS upgrade in the pipeline it will support the next generation of AMD GPU/CPUs, but even with Intel, go for the right bus Gen2(PCI_E4), and if you're lucky you might not need a new board, just an upgraded BIOS.

 

Good 1080Ti can be found online, new at low cost or second hand if you're strapped for cash, the Ryzen 5 3600X I run is marginal in power compared to newer CPUs but adequate in most case for VR when pitted with a good GPU and the EVGA GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti 11GB is probably the best, I insist on 11GB, the more VRAM, the better. My CPU is still 25 to 36% faster than yours so GPU like CPU need upgrading to get reasonable performances in VR.

 

My RAM is DDR4-3200, I use Crucial kits they are really good and relatively cheap, more RAM is good but the right RAM speed is better (bound with CPU) and in any case it is the CPU speed which will be your problem.

 

https://uk.crucial.com/memory/ddr4/bl2k16g32c16u4b

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...are#post286745

 

[Jetguy06]

Yeah, I'm not expecting too much of a performance increase, considering it's just RAM and all the other factors you mentioned. But I am surprised that I'm below the minimum specs for VR, especially because the very reason I bought this PC was that it was off-the-shelf VR-ready, even before I upgraded it. It didn't have the 1060 ti or the 8GB DDR4 RAM when I bought it, but it ran DCS in VR, and even now, it runs it well enough for me (loading times aside).

 

I'll try to get the info on my MoBo and BIOS. That may help explain some more. Thanks!!

[BitMaster]

Never mind the board, it's a HP rig with HP components that you likely cannot tune in Bios as you can with Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Asrock etc.. . HP does not want their customers to screw up Bios and then call HelpDesk.

That there is a sticker saying "VR-Ready" does not mean it can run all VR Sims that are out there. It is enough to load and enjoy the basics, but DCS is far from basic or moderate in terms of compute power.

 

Make a big bow around such machines in the future if you intend to run heavy VR. YOu need a machine which is likely neither sold by HP or Dell. If it is, it will be A LOT more money than if you built it yourself or have it built at a store for you.

Better price, better perfromance and you can tune it too as it has a Bios that allows it.

 

Dell and HP are good for standard use cases, Office, Home-PC, Laptops for work, etc... but not for heavy simulations like DCS.

[Jetguy06]

Never mind the board, it's a HP rig with HP components that you likely cannot tune in Bios as you can with Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, Asrock etc.. . HP does not want their customers to screw up Bios and then call HelpDesk.

That there is a sticker saying "VR-Ready" does not mean it can run all VR Sims that are out there. It is enough to load and enjoy the basics, but DCS is far from basic or moderate in terms of compute power.

 

Make a big bow around such machines in the future if you intend to run heavy VR. YOu need a machine which is likely neither sold by HP or Dell. If it is, it will be A LOT more money than if you built it yourself or have it built at a store for you.

Better price, better perfromance and you can tune it too as it has a Bios that allows it.

 

Dell and HP are good for standard use cases, Office, Home-PC, Laptops for work, etc... but not for heavy simulations like DCS.

 

Makes sense. My last machine was an Asus, and I loved it. My next upgrade will almost certainly be an Asus, but will need to be off-the-shelf again, unfortunately. I just don't, and won't, have the finances necessary to build my own (yet). The upgrade after that, however, I'm hoping to go as all-out as I can.

[Thinder]

Yeah, I'm not expecting too much of a performance increase, considering it's just RAM and all the other factors you mentioned. But I am surprised that I'm below the minimum specs for VR, especially because the very reason I bought this PC was that it was off-the-shelf VR-ready, even before I upgraded it. It didn't have the 1060 ti or the 8GB DDR4 RAM when I bought it, but it ran DCS in VR, and even now, it runs it well enough for me (loading times aside).

 

I'll try to get the info on my MoBo and BIOS. That may help explain some more. Thanks!!

 

If you're happy with the visual you got with your system in VR, it doesn't change much to your problem, RAM store the data, but it is the processor that crunches the numbers, the faster, the better, you might want to sort your page files as well, if you have more than one partition, set your page file on a different partition than your O.S, typically twice the RAM size, allocated to programs (not to background apps).

 

I use a CV1 too but after the initial wow! effect of playing VR for the first time, I'm looking at better, I can't spend so much time leaning over to read a label or see a switch in the middle of a mission, so I ordered a CV2.

 

If you want to improve your system, you have two choices; Cram as much power on your actual motherboard with GPU and CPU upgrade as you can, without forgetting to check how much power you get out of your PSU first.

 

Second option; start buying parts for an upgrade in several increments (which is what I have done), same as above, you'll need minimum 650W out of your PSU and that's NOT negotiable nor does it mean maximum output, it means CONTINUOUS output, manufacturer-guaranteed continuous output make sure it delivers at full load, so you don't experience HD and other component failures that are gonna cost you a lot more than the extra dosh they can cost.

 

Intel/AMD is your choice, what you feel the most comfortable with, I don't know Intel so much since their standard have changed since the time I had one, but there are plenty of players who can advise you on motherboards and CPUs, when it comes to AMD, pretty much the same except that they seems more players oriented and offer good performances at slightly lower cost, if you go for Intel make sure you have good cooling, the Intel systems run hotter.

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...yer#post290649

 

CORSAIR is one PSU manufacturer I know delivers, although I do not know for the 650W, I use a Corsair TX750M 750W for reference. Continuous power 750 Watts, you might want to shop around and figure if you can find anything cheaper offering the same performances in terms of Continuous power output, if you go for the lowest, your growth potential will be limited by the PSU, this includes CPU and GPU future upgrades.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Catego...tab-tech-specs

 

In my case, I still use my Ryzen 5 3600X, which is very good but lags behind in terms of performances when compared to the next generation of CPUs, since I have to wait for my motherboard BIOS update to use those, I'm still learning about them, but my choice would be a reasonably priced CPU, starting with the Ryzen 5 5600X.

 

To replace my GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti 11GB I'll be looking at the MSI Radeon RX 6800 XT GAMING X 16GB, the make is my choice due to the fact that I have an account with them, use a MSI motherboard and mouse.

 

In short, I managed to build a mid-range PC with good VR capabilities at a reasonable price but I'm still looking at the possibility of having to upgrade further because I want to play DCS with the best settings possible. This will depends on the performance of what I have now when I got my HP Reverb G2, right now, using my CV1 it is just marginally enough for mid/high settings.

 

What I know is that for full-specs VR, my system is still limited, and another 32GB of RAM is not going to help that much.

 

The links I posted are there for guidance, I can't advise you further than that, start by looking at PSU/motherboard and standard compatibility before committing to a purchase, you can buy second hand (wisely) if it is advantageous (like a 2080Ti) etc.

 

 

[Jetguy06]

 

If you're happy with the visual you got with your system in VR, it doesn't change much to your problem, RAM store the data, but it is the processor that crunches the numbers, the faster, the better, you might want to sort your page files as well, if you have more than one partition, set your page file on a different partition than your O.S, typically twice the RAM size, allocated to programs (not to background apps).

 

I use a CV1 too but after the initial wow! effect of playing VR for the first time, I'm looking at better, I can't spend so much time leaning over to read a label or see a switch in the middle of a mission, so I ordered a CV2.

 

If you want to improve your system, you have two choices; Cram as much power on your actual motherboard with GPU and CPU upgrade as you can, without forgetting to check how much power you get out of your PSU first.

 

Second option; start buying parts for an upgrade in several increments (which is what I have done), same as above, you'll need minimum 650W out of your PSU and that's NOT negotiable nor does it mean maximum output, it means CONTINUOUS output, manufacturer-guaranteed continuous output make sure it delivers at full load, so you don't experience HD and other component failures that are gonna cost you a lot more than the extra dosh they can cost.

 

Intel/AMD is your choice, what you feel the most comfortable with, I don't know Intel so much since their standard have changed since the time I had one, but there are plenty of players who can advise you on motherboards and CPUs, when it comes to AMD, pretty much the same except that they seems more players oriented and offer good performances at slightly lower cost, if you go for Intel make sure you have good cooling, the Intel systems run hotter.

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...yer#post290649

 

CORSAIR is one PSU manufacturer I know delivers, although I do not know for the 650W, I use a Corsair TX750M 750W for reference. Continuous power 750 Watts, you might want to shop around and figure if you can find anything cheaper offering the same performances in terms of Continuous power output, if you go for the lowest, your growth potential will be limited by the PSU, this includes CPU and GPU future upgrades.

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Catego...tab-tech-specs

 

In my case, I still use my Ryzen 5 3600X, which is very good but lags behind in terms of performances when compared to the next generation of CPUs, since I have to wait for my motherboard BIOS update to use those, I'm still learning about them, but my choice would be a reasonably priced CPU, starting with the Ryzen 5 5600X.

 

To replace my GEFORCE GTX 1080Ti 11GB I'll be looking at the MSI Radeon RX 6800 XT GAMING X 16GB, the make is my choice due to the fact that I have an account with them, use a MSI motherboard and mouse.

 

In short, I managed to build a mid-range PC with good VR capabilities at a reasonable price but I'm still looking at the possibility of having to upgrade further because I want to play DCS with the best settings possible. This will depends on the performance of what I have now when I got my HP Reverb G2, right now, using my CV1 it is just marginally enough for mid/high settings.

 

What I know is that for full-specs VR, my system is still limited, and another 32GB of RAM is not going to help that much.

 

The links I posted are there for guidance, I can't advise you further than that, start by looking at PSU/motherboard and standard compatibility before committing to a purchase, you can buy second hand (wisely) if it is advantageous (like a 2080Ti) etc.

 

 

There's alot of stuff I need to upgrade, and it's going to have to be incrementally, for now. A quick look at the Asus store showed a very promising PC (G35CZ), but for around $3,000. The i9-10900KF processor looks great, but it's only clocked at 3.7GHz initially, with the ability to OC at up to 5.3. With my inexperience, I don't trust myself with OCing. Knowing my luck, I'd fry everything in the tower on my first try. But it doesn't look like there are any other options (yet) for processors faster than that initially.

 

I'm not against anything other than Intel, but literally every computer I've ever owned has had Intel processors, so it's the only brand I have any experience with, for better or worse.

 

From reading around the forums, it also looks like the 8GB VRAM in my 1660 ti is very soon not going to be enough, if it's already not enough, so that's going to have to be upgraded sooner than later as well.

 

Also, how big of a difference was the clarity in the Rift CV2 from the CV1? I'm definitely interested to hear about anything that can help alleviate the "screen door" effect. Again, I have nothing against brands other than Oculus, but since I already have their hardware and software, upgrading might be just a little easier if I stay with them. Thanks!!

[Thinder]

 

Also, how big of a difference was the clarity in the Rift CV2 from the CV1?

 

I believe that the CV 2 has better optics and slightly higher resolution, playing the CV1 is like playing with your nose on the screen, you see the grills real big and they are intrusive, you can't really read labels and depending on lighting condition, you also can struggle with buttons and knobs.

 

I chose to buy it as entry-level for VR because it was new at below half the price (I'm good at finding good deals but it takes a lot of shopping around), now I look forward to my G2, it should be another level, but it will also mean that I'll push my system to its limits, I'm lucky both my CPU and GPUs are good at O.C, they might have to do for a while, I upgraded my case and fans for this reason, my cooling solution is very good.

 

RAM upgrade will come last, what matters most is to find which RAM suits your CPU the best, it's not always the fastest RAM which works the fastest with a given CPU, there too it takes research work, read articles and watch videos on the subject.

 

One simple trick to improve your PC performances is setting up page files, your O.S need a given amount of memory to keep running while you're playing games, if you allocate page files properly to it, it will make itself sparse, otherwise it can eat up on your RAM and if you don't have much of it, you will notice. Personally, I chose to install a 500GB SSD and use it exclusively for gaming, since it is way faster than my other disk, I have my page files set on it; 98304Mb.

 

Same for PC maintenance, I clean mine everyday with Gary Utility Pro, it saves a lot of space and the PC runs smoother anyway. In short, take care of your PC like of a high performance motorcycle...

 

I completely forgot. I had loads of trouble with Windows 10 Home Edition when it comes to memory management, it is p*** poor, things got a lot better after I swap for Windows 10 Pro, but still, there is nothing running in the background that I don't need, setting up your O.S for apps running from start up is important, they can slow down Windows by a fair amount, there are tutorials to set up windows 10 for gaming on Youtube.

 

 

 

[Jetguy06]

My apologies for the delay, but the RAM came in on Friday. I didn't have a chance to install it and test it until yesterday, though.

 

New problems; immediately after installing the RAM, I hooked everything back up, and pressed the power button to start the PC, but the power button just blinked, with no attempt at boot-up. Further inspection showed my GPU and CPU fans spinning when the power button light came on, then stopping when the light turned off... just pulsating like that. Swapping the old RAM back in didn't fix it. My PC is inop until Wednesday when I can bring it to a buddy's. This is way over my head, and I have no idea what it could be. Google only showed results for laptops, and anything with a desktop with my symptoms ended up with no solution. I fear my PC has bitten the dust, and I can't really afford to replace it atm.

[Taz1004]

It is possible you didn't install the RAM all the way.  Needs to be pressed in firmly until it clicks.

[BitMaster]

You may very well need to rest the Bios the hard way if it still will not boot after making sure as said above that the modules are all inserted properly.

 

To reset the Bios fully,:

- unplug the PC from AC 

- wait 30 secs for caps to drain empty ( might wanna push the start button a few times too )

- put the CLEAR CMOS JUMPER in the CLEAR/SHORT position ( look into youtr manual if unsure where and how ! )

- take the battery out

- shorten the battery tray's + and - with a coin or s screwdriver ( Metal ! ) by touching both + and - poles in the tray for 1 minute ( 10 sec usually does it, but play safe )

 

THEN

 

- put jumper frpm CMOS CLEAR back to normal position

- insert battery

- BOOT IT UP

 

Other things that may give a hint.

 

- CLEAN all dust out of your PC and from all RAM slots

- insert only ONE module and try to boot. You can alternate the modules and slots to find the culprit slot or module

- disconnect all hardware not needed to boot the board:  any drives ( NVMe / SSD / HDD / DVD ), All peripherals but keyboard ( Display, all USB except KB, Monitor, Sound cables, etc.. make the I/O panel BLANK, take GPU and any other AIB out ( you do NOT need a GPU to boot a PC ).

 

Work slowly and have a concept, follow it, take notes if needed, make a pause when you get frustrated and then get back to it following a logical plan ( take all out you dont need:  1 RAM in (any) 1 Slot + CPU is all it needs to boot the beast !! )

 

Take it easy and slowly

 

 

[Worrazen]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:57 PM, Jetguy06 said:

Yeah, I'm not expecting too much of a performance increase, considering it's just RAM and all the other factors you mentioned. But I am surprised that I'm below the minimum specs for VR, especially because the very reason I bought this PC was that it was off-the-shelf VR-ready, even before I upgraded it. It didn't have the 1060 ti or the 8GB DDR4 RAM when I bought it, but it ran DCS in VR, and even now, it runs it well enough for me (loading times aside).

 

I'll try to get the info on my MoBo and BIOS. That may help explain some more. Thanks!!

 

You can't trust pretty much anything that's off-the-shelf 100%, sorry. I can't find a better example to give you an idea right now because I'm a bit busy so this video should do it. (check out part 2 etc)

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Worrazen

[Jetguy06]

Well, fellas, I've got great news and even greater news.

 

The great news is that my pc is back up and running. I didn't do my proper homework, and the result was me not seeing that my mobo was capped at 8gb of RAM. So when I installed the 16gb sticks, the PC didn't know what to do, so it just didn't boot. Pulling the CMOS battery fixed it. I also bought a 1tb ssd, and my buddy wiped my hdd, and installed Windows onto my ssd, so I have to reinstall everything. But that's ok because I won't be using this pc for much longer...

 

The greater news is that we just ordered some parts to build a new pc. Because I'm porting over my 1660ti, and my (new) 32gb of RAM, combined with an extended cyber Monday sale, we were able to order all the needed components for a new pc for just over $850, instead of the $3,000 I was seeing for a somewhat comparable, albeit slightly better system on the ASUS store.

 

The new pc will have:

Mobo: Asus TUF Z390-A

Processor: i7-9700k

GPU: GTX 1660ti

32gb DDR4 2133 RAM

USB 3.0 Card with 4 additional USB 3.0 slots (for the Rift and HOTAS/rudder pedal peripherals)

 

Plus a liquid cooler that he had to swap out last minute, because the one we decided on was on back order.

 

All in an Asus TUF Gaming GT301 case.

 

The last part to arrive should be the mobo... it will be here on the 11th.

 

This new system will give me plenty of headroom to upgrade RAM, my GPU, and even my ssd to an M.2, if I so desire down the line. It should be a great system once it arrives and we build it, and should last quite a long time, I'm hoping, with only a few upgrades needed along the way. I'm stoked!!

[Jetguy06]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:54 AM, Worrazen said:

 

You can't trust pretty much anything that's off-the-shelf 100%, sorry. I can't find a better example to give you an idea right now because I'm a bit busy so this video should do it. (check out part 2 etc)

 

 

 

Yeah, my buddy was telling me the same thing yesterday. It really is much more affordable to build your own system. I just hadn't anticipated it being this affordable.