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CPU overclock - is it truely worth it for DCS?

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    #41
    Originally posted by norbot View Post
    The reason why people give their OC information is the same as why some drive fat cars or wear extremely expensive watches etc. - namely, showing off.
    Well, cranking my 3570k from 3.4 (single/dual core boost rate of 3.8 never applied with DCS running) to 4.4 almost doubled my framerate. That said, I'm not boasting it in my sig though
    404: Sigpic function not found

    This signature has been broken by the board software update... (two weeks)soon

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      #42
      Sorry, but I don't get it.
      You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.
      And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

      I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands
      So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.
      Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.
      sigpic

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        #43
        Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
        Sorry, but I don't get it.
        You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.
        And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

        I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands
        So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.
        Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.
        You're assuming that the shortening of life is dramatic. If people were having their systems go that quickly - I doubt overclocking would be so popular. I think in most cases, the CPU outlives it's usefulness and people upgrade well before the CPU goes anyway. In the end, different people, different priorities, different focus I guess.... Hey... some people here might even have a gaming rig solely for running DCS with no other games on it simply because they enjoy it that much... not that I would admit to that with the wife being online.

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          #44
          Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
          Sorry, but I don't get it.
          You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.
          And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

          I fly a few sims and none of them come even close to the DCS demands
          So...with the option of putting in a few grands or ruining my system I rather fly less DCS or accept lower capabilities when flying DCS.
          Mind you...I fly the F-16 and that module is notorious for its demands on the system.



          I would not assume that you are shortening a system's life with every overclock. Some will draw less current and will actually give a longer life. Some will absolutely reduce life expectancy but still provide a far greater lifespan than you'd ever need. Like getting nine years and eight months instead of ten years. Some can and will degrade a CPU in months, days, minutes or seconds. Learn the limits of your CPU through research.



          RAM timings are also worth tweaking for some systems, but that's something you can learn later if you need it.

          Comment


            #45
            Here is the thing,
            I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.
            Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.
            When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.
            If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.
            It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.
            Are power cars fun?
            Hell yes!
            But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.
            sigpic

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
              Here is the thing,
              I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.
              Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.
              When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.
              If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.
              It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.
              Are power cars fun?
              Hell yes!
              But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.
              I actually don't agree with that assessment. CPU is different than cars that pushing doesn't necessarily lead to shorter lifespan. Life of CPU depends strictly on the CPU temp.

              Which means someone who never overclocks but never clean dust off the stock fans would have shorter CPU life than someone who overclocks but keeps it cool. People who overclocks are much more aware of the cooling.

              Comment


                #47
                I would suggest reading up on overclocking on forums dedicated to the practice rather than the DCS forums.

                Seems there is much you're lacking about how turbo boost functions and the dos and don'ts of adjusting vcore voltage.

                8700K is stock 3.7Ghz, it boosts to 4.3Ghz when multiple cores are in use, and boosts 1 or 2 cores to 4.7Ghz when applications aren't using more than that out of the box. That being said, even single threaded apps like DCS can cause it to boost to 4.3Ghz instead of opting for the 1 or 2 cores at 4.7Ghz.

                8700K's are pretty much guaranteed to find a stable OC up to 4.9ghz on all cores with 1.3vcore or less. But toying with voltage takes some knowledge, you never want to go too high, and you really want to find a comfy spot around 85C max via hours of stress testing under full load, which also should let oyu know if you're system is stable. Like..no hangs, and no crashes during stress testing. 90C isn't going to kill your cpu, neither will 95C, but it's high enough that I'd want to back off the voltage and/or cpu frequency. You want to make sure you have sufficient cooling, I have a dual fan radiator AIO liquid cooling unit that keeps my cpu cool enough to feel comfortable.

                I'm @ 4.9Ghz currently at around 1.275vcore.. but YMMV, one person's settings and achievable clock speeds aren't going to work for everyone else.

                Pushing 5Ghz requires a hefty vcore bump on my machine and causes quite a bit of heat, so I backed it down to 4.9Ghz, which an 8700k SHOULD achieve comfortably. Others got a lot more lucky with the silicon lottery.

                You also want to disable the avx offset when overclocking to maintain your clock frequency.

                It's honestly pretty easy to OC the 8700k and find a stable 4.9Ghz.. but there are better places to research how to do so, and finding the lowest voltage to accomplish it is a task of reducing vcore in increments of .005 to .015. And it's best if your motherboard has a bios reset button in case you do something silly and need to reset to defaults to even get your board to post.

                I mean no offense to the DCS community but you're going to get a lot of varied responses, some from people who have a better understanding than others, and some who don't.
                Last edited 09-28-2020, 04:35 PM.
                Win 10 pro 64bit i7 8700k @ 5.0ghz (all cores) - EVGA RTX 2080Ti XC Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 16CAS, 970 Evo 250Gb boot drive, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, pny 480gb sata 3 SSDx2, 4TB HDD - Acer Predator x34 (3440x1440@100hz), Samsung Odyssey WMR, - Peripherals = msffb2 for heli/prop planes, warthog (for jets), -Warthog throttle, Logitech G13, MFG Crosswinds

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by Taz1004 View Post
                  I actually don't agree with that assessment. CPU is different than cars that pushing doesn't necessarily lead to shorter lifespan. Life of CPU depends strictly on the CPU temp.

                  Which means someone who never overclocks but never clean dust off the stock fans would have shorter CPU life than someone who overclocks but keeps it cool. People who overclocks are much more aware of the cooling.
                  Nahh, not quite, higher voltages degrade the gates and trace routes faster. With higher temps all that happens is that resistance grows and such the above effect becomes even worse.
                  You could cool a CPU to -250°C, apply extreme voltages ( while WAY sub zero ) and still wear out the CPU, the cooling would not fix that issue all the way.

                  Best is to balance heat/voltage to a safe level on either end.

                  That's how I understand this topic.
                  Asus Strix Z370-E - Intel i7-8700K@5G_delidded - 32GB - Asus 1080GTX-Ti Poseidon retrofitted EK-waterblock - 1x 960Evo 250GB - 3x Samsung 850/860Pro 256GB Raid-0 - 32GB PageFile - 2x Seagate 2TB - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@4x180mm fans - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" WQHD Gsync 144Hz - Oculus Rift VR - Win10Pro64 - Slave to the Machine

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                    #49
                    Originally posted by BitMaster View Post
                    Nahh, not quite, higher voltages degrade the gates and trace routes faster. With higher temps all that happens is that resistance grows and such the above effect becomes even worse.
                    You could cool a CPU to -250°C, apply extreme voltages ( while WAY sub zero ) and still wear out the CPU, the cooling would not fix that issue all the way.

                    Best is to balance heat/voltage to a safe level on either end.

                    That's how I understand this topic.
                    Technically yes but in practice, no. First of all, you can overclock quite a bit without raising voltage. I went from 4.0GHz to 4.7GHz safely without raising voltage. Second, even if you had to raise the voltage, the degradation is so minute that it's insignificant. Especially with today's CPU's that throttles voltage based on usage. Of course I wasn't referring to extreme overclocking with liquid nitrogen but more of general overclocking.

                    Besides, the point I was trying to make was that regular maintenance of the hardware effects your component life more than overclocking. And the people who tweak usually take care of their hardware better.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
                      Here is the thing,
                      I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.
                      Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.
                      When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.
                      If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.
                      It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.
                      Are power cars fun?
                      Hell yes!
                      But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.

                      I had a 4770k from feb 2014 until dec 2019. It was running at 4.3ghz since day 1. I sold it to a person I know. He's still running it. What I conclude is that yes, it must shorten the cpu's life, but they will still last until at least when they become obsolete and they probably keep going for long. Heck, I have a 2010 macbook pro running Win7 bootcamp. It's still running hot like it always was.
                      B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC, Ryzen 3600, 32Gb DDR4 3600MHz, GTX1070Ti, CH Stuff, Oculus CV1

                      Wishlist:
                      AH-64
                      F-15E
                      F-117A

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                        #51
                        I had my first gen. i7 920 oc'd to 4.0 for close to 10 yrs without one issue once i got it stable.
                        Ryzen9 3900X, Gigabyte Aorus X570 Elite, 32Gb Gskill Trident DDR4 3600 CL16, Gigabyte Aorus 1Tb Nvme Gen4, Evo860 1Tb 2.5 SSD, EVGA FTW RTX2080 Super, Corsair h115i Platinum AIO, NZXT H710i case, Seasonic Focus 850W psu, Gigabyte Aorus AD27QHD Gsync 1ms IPS 2k monitor 144Mhz, Track ir4, TMW Hotas, Saitek combat pedals, RiftS

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                          #52
                          Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
                          Here is the thing,
                          I agree that OC done by an expert can benefit the system rather than shorten its life...but...most are just laymen who just try to bump up systems that shouldn't be OC or OC to the extent that it ruins them or lessen their performance.
                          Chips, motherboards and power supplies are optimized (kind of ) to work best within certain parameters within a certain interaction.
                          When you try to take such a system beyond what it was built for you should just get hold of a different system that was built for that higher load/ capacity/ strain.
                          If you don't and unless you are an expert it shall be very similar to taking a car and modifying it for racing with a drilled engine.
                          It shall be able to perform better for a short while but since it was not built for that higher stress it just shall not hold it together for too long.
                          Are power cars fun?
                          Hell yes!
                          But most are short lived if pushed hard and DCS pushes real hard.

                          I don't agree with very much of this, either as an overclocker or car enthusiast. Nobody is suggesting that a person open up their bios and set massive vcore with absolutely zero knowledge or guidance or research, and the level of knowledge required to safely overclock a system is easily available today.



                          Why would anyone overclock their system to the point where in-usage performance is degraded? Components certainly have parameters that they need to operate within, but that's certainly accounted for by anyone with the most basic level of reading comprehension. Intel provide specific chipsets for motherboards with the design intent of overclocking. They provide CPUs that support overclocking. AMD support overclocking across three main families of motherboard chipsets today. The aftermarket supports a wide range of cooling options. The internet has a huge range of reading resources available for every modern consumer OC-capable CPU. If a person owns an overclockable system and has the time and motivation to learn, then I'd encourage them to do so. Historically, for myself and many others it has had nothing but benefits.



                          As for the car analogy, it's not really accurate to say that getting more power out of a motor will degrade it's longevity. It's sometimes true, but it regularly isn't.

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                            #53
                            I'm running a 9900k on a EVGA Z390 Dark, overclocked on all cores to 5.1Ghz. Paired with watercooled, overclocked and power modded 2080 TIs. My Son has the same GPU paired with a 7700k stock clocks on a Z170. We get the exact same frame rate in DCS VR sitting on the deck of the super carrier.

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                              #54
                              [QUOTE=POLARIS1;4503325]Sorry, but I don't get it.
                              You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.
                              And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

                              It's fun. I always power mod to heavily overclock the fastest GPU when It becomes available. I've never seen degraded hardware from overclocking, but I always slap waterblocks on my CPU and GPU. I have however kept my 9900k because I love my motherboard and the my CPU memory controller rocks! I'm running 16x2 32GB @4000mhz with 16cl timings and rock solid stable! That's insane! And fun!

                              Comment


                                #55
                                [QUOTE=STRYC;4504555]
                                Originally posted by POLARIS1 View Post
                                Sorry, but I don't get it.
                                You OC your system in order to get more juice out of your system because replacing is with a better system is expensive...but...in doing so you're shortening your system's life which will force you to spend the same money you couldn't or more if the damage is extensive.
                                And...all that for a few frames in a software that is as resources hungry as the half horse?

                                It's fun. I always power mod to heavily overclock the fastest GPU when It becomes available. I've never seen degraded hardware from overclocking, but I always slap waterblocks on my CPU and GPU. I have however kept my 9900k because I love my motherboard and the my CPU memory controller rocks! I'm running 16x2 32GB @4000mhz with 16cl timings and rock solid stable! That's insane! And fun!
                                what memory is that?
                                7700k @5ghz, 32gb 3200mhz ram, 2080ti, nvme drives, valve index vr

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by STRYC View Post
                                  I'm running a 9900k on a EVGA Z390 Dark, overclocked on all cores to 5.1Ghz. Paired with watercooled, overclocked and power modded 2080 TIs. My Son has the same GPU paired with a 7700k stock clocks on a Z170. We get the exact same frame rate in DCS VR sitting on the deck of the super carrier.
                                  This means you are GPU bound (as you probably know) which is where you probably want to be and where my system is. This is kind of proof that new GPU upgrades will increase performance for those of us in this situation. I would think that if you both installed the same 3080 card you would start to get better fps on the PC with higher clocks as this will feed that card better!

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    Originally Posted by eatthis


                                    what memory is that?


                                    GSkill TRIDENTZ F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW DDR4-4000 CL 19-19-19. I'm unable to clock it passed 4000 but I'm able to tighten up the timings @ Cl 16-16-16. Rock solid stable.
                                    Last edited 10-01-2020, 10:13 PM. Reason: Show Who I was Answering

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                                      #58
                                      3D Mark Fire Strike Ultra 3840 × 2160 (4K UHD)


                                      GPU OCed with MSI Afterburner. CPU OCed with Ryzen Master. Both moderate, no special tweaking.

                                      Differences are a lot greater at lower resolutions and less demanding tests but i try to figure what to expect when I will play DCS with the HP Reverb G2, so I focus on high resolutions while preparing for a much better cooling for my case (not delivered yet) which should help if I want to push the system further.


                                      Graphics score
                                      6 995 vs 6 870
                                      Graphics test 1
                                      38.76 FPS vs 37.58 FPS
                                      Graphics test 2
                                      25.03 FPS vs 24.79 FPS
                                      Physics score
                                      19 041 vs 18 804
                                      Physics test
                                      60.45 FPS vs 59.70 FPS

                                      The Physics test runs 32 parallel simulations of soft and rigid body physics on the CPU.

                                      With MSAA turned to 2, Oculus Tray Tool set for 2 as well and new profile for both GPU and CPU (Still nothing special, no manual tweaking) I got this:

                                      Graphics score
                                      7 226
                                      Graphics test 1
                                      40.26 FPS
                                      Graphics test 2
                                      25.76 FPS
                                      Physics score
                                      18 677
                                      Physics test
                                      59.29 FPS

                                      If the gain isn't enormous I think it provides with a solid performance for VR, resolution for this test are higher than what is required for the G2, also, the more I push the GPU, the more the CPU seems to have to work in the Physic tests.

                                      Last edited 10-04-2020, 05:23 AM.
                                      MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX AMD Ryzen B450 ATX DDR4 Motherboard, AMD Ryzen 5 3600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB Kit DDR4-3200, 22' Samsung, Oculus Rift CV1. Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS.
                                      Mirage 2000C, F-15C, Mig-29, A4E.
                                      Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.
                                      So far so good...

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                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by STRYC View Post
                                        Originally Posted by eatthis


                                        what memory is that?


                                        GSkill TRIDENTZ F4-4000C19D-32GTZSW DDR4-4000 CL 19-19-19. I'm unable to clock it passed 4000 but I'm able to tighten up the timings @ Cl 16-16-16. Rock solid stable.
                                        is speed or timing more important for dcs vr?
                                        7700k @5ghz, 32gb 3200mhz ram, 2080ti, nvme drives, valve index vr

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          When I am proficient with all DCS airplanes, perhaps I will consider overclocking. Until then I enjoy flying.
                                          How to achieve high framerates in VR
                                          VIC-20@1.108 MHz, onboard GPU, 5KB RAM, μυωπία goggles, Competition Pro HOTAS

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