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Eurofighter relative flight performance, feat. Gero Finke

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    #81
    Originally posted by Hummingbird View Post
    You are saying it has a higher landing AoA than the Hornet?

    Where is the landing AoA specified for both under similar loadings?
    F/A-18 ~8°
    Typhoon ~13°

    AoA doesn't vary a lot (if at all) due to weight.
    i7-7700K 4.2GHz, 16GB, GTX 1070 452.06, win10/64, T16000M, DCS 2.5.6.52437

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      #82
      Originally posted by Hummingbird View Post
      You are saying it has a higher landing AoA than the Hornet?

      Where is the landing AoA specified for both under similar loadings?
      Standard Typhoon AoA for landing is 13, standard landing AoA for Hornet is 8.1

      Not the whole story, but it gives you an idea.

      Edit: damn, too slow!

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        #83
        High sweep/low aspect ratio wings have a flatter CL/Alpha curve, meaning they need more AoA to get a given CL value. the wing loading of the Typhoon reduces the Cl it needs, but in landing config a Hornet can generate a lot of Cl for very little alpha. low sweep angle, higher aspect ratio, full span LEF and TEF, high chord % TEF (compared to a Typhoon).

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          #84
          Originally posted by Steph21 View Post
          Standard Typhoon AoA for landing is 13, standard landing AoA for Hornet is 8.1

          Not the whole story, but it gives you an idea.

          Edit: damn, too slow!
          Yeah, so the biggest part of the explanation for that is the extremely high wing camber the Hornet generates with it's enormous slotted landing flaps drastically reducing the AoA needed for a certain Cl (critical AoA goes down as well). However as the airframe AoA needed goes down the chord line angle vs wind actually goes up = which is the effect of TE flaps.
          Spoiler:






          By comparison the Typhoon, due to its very low wing loading, doesn't need to make use of any high lift devices for landing, and as such the relative landing AoA is going to be a little higher:
          Spoiler:

          Last edited by Hummingbird; 09-19-2020, 11:26 AM. Reason: added a slightly more in depth explanation

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            #85
            @-TITS-

            Just curious, did you ever face the Rafale in training? And if so, how did you find it compared with the Typhoon in terms of inst. & sust. rate?

            Note: Only asking as Rafale pilots apparently don't hold back from comparing the two, so I thought it would be good to hear an opinion from both sides, if possible.

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              #86
              Dear Gero Finke,

              In your first post you graded western 4 gen fighters and it's really interesting to read, but what can you say about any eastern assets? I suspect you could meet MiG-29 in training flights, can you describe your experience from this meeting it was? (also I would duplicate this question for Flanker family units, but as I remember they are not regular members of Red Flag (Indian AF for example), but maybe you heard something from your colleagues?? )

              Best regards
              TAW_Glimmer
              Су-27 Flanker | Су-30 Flanker-C | Су-33 Flanker-D | Су-34 Fullback | Су-24 Fencer | МиГ-29 Fulcrum | F-16C Fighting Falcon | F-15C Eagle | F/A-18C Hornet | F/A-18E Super Hornet | F-14 Tomcat | Eurofighter Typhoon | Tornado IDS | JAS-39 Gripen | AJ/JA(S)-37 Viggen | Rafale | M-2000 Mirage
              Mi-28N Havoc | Mi-24P Hind | AH-64D Apache | OH-58D Kiowa Warrior | UH-60 Blackhawk

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                #87
                Originally posted by bbrz View Post
                What? This sentence doesn't make any sense. Neither as a reply, nor as an explanation.
                It makes sense, if you roughly consider the characteristic differences between trapezoid and delta wings

                Originally posted by Steph21 View Post
                Standard Typhoon AoA for landing is 13, standard landing AoA for Hornet is 8.1
                Is there a difference in min. landing speed?
                Last edited by HDpilot; 09-22-2020, 06:00 PM.
                Asus Q87M-E, core i5 4460 3.2GHz, 32GB DDR3 1600MHz, GTX 1060 6GB, 250GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO, Windows 10 pro 64bit,
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                  #88
                  I'm seeing 130-140 for the Hornet based on weight and ~140 for the Typhoon (no weight listed)


                  Edit: read another article on the Tiffy that said Approach is above 135. So it may be reasonable to say at comparable landing conditions the Hornet is ~5kt slower. No surprise to me. Straight wing with tons of camber vs delta with very little camber.
                  Last edited by Spurts; 09-22-2020, 07:51 PM.

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                    #89
                    Originally posted by Hummingbird View Post
                    @-TITS-

                    Just curious, did you ever face the Rafale in training? And if so, how did you find it compared with the Typhoon in terms of inst. & sust. rate?

                    Note: Only asking as Rafale pilots apparently don't hold back from comparing the two, so I thought it would be good to hear an opinion from both sides, if possible.

                    Unfortunately - no!
                    ________________________________

                    -TITS-

                    Lead SME Eurofighter Typhoon
                    TrueGrit Virtual Technologies

                    sigpic

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                      #90
                      Originally posted by TrueGrit2 View Post
                      Unfortunately - no!
                      Unfortunate indeed, would love to hear how these two compared from an EF pilot's POV.

                      That said, did you and Gero find it hard to outturn the Hornet in turns at low speed, or did the EF handily beat the Hornet here despite the AoA disadvantage?

                      Also is it correct that the EF's AoA limit is 24 deg?

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