How to dogfight in the MiG-19P?

[Schmidtfire]

I have been flying the MiG-19P quite a bit on the JUST DOGFIGHT multiplayer server. How do I fly the jet to it’s strenghts?

 

I find it difficult to handle and sluggish both in the vertical and in a turnfight. I know the MiG-19P is the heavy model, but I cannot understand the reputation that MiG-19 is a good dogfighter. What am I missing? :huh:

[rossmum]

I had the same problem for a long time. Don't pull like you would in a 21. Try and hold as close to 800km/h as possible, at that speed it becomes an absolute rate monster and is almost untouchable to F-5s. It's also currently affected too much by higher AoA (acknowledged and hopefully remedied soon), so its performance should only improve in the future, but this should mostly help with the little bit extra you need to get a guns solution (which is still hard even if you fly it right).

 

Bear in mind when a real pilot calls something a good dogfighter, it doesn't necessarily mean it turns in a small radius. They could be referring to climb or dive performance, roll rate, or sustained turn. The 21 has a bit of all of these, while the 19 really emphasises sustained turn rate over anything else in DCS. It's like a 1950s F-16.

[Schmidtfire]

I have noticed the high AoA issues. Something feels a bit wonky about that. In certain situations I can pull full backstick and pretty much "brake" in mid air.

 

It loves to go fast, but is difficult to handle at speed. Diving on a bandit, even with throttle to idle, can be a deadly trap. I don't know how much the AoA issues come into play here, but it is easy to get into a dive you cannot recover in time from.

 

MiG-21 habits are hard to break... Gonna try your tip and keep it close to 800km/h. And avoid fights in the vertical and ease up on the stick.

 

For the gunsight do you use the gyro or radar at all? I have tried it a few times, but it seems like it is better suited for bombers or transports. The sight on the Tiger II seems a bit better in that regard.

[Leviathan667]

Just read somewhere real pilots used it in gyro mode to intercept bombers and other slow maneuvring aircraft. In a turn fight, they used the sight in in its fixed position.

 

Thnks rossmum for the tip. At what altitude range is the 19 at its best in DCS? I read IRL, medium to high altitude and that it was even prohibited by Soviet doctrine to fight at low alt.

[rossmum]

At low alt and holding rates it is pretty much untouchable to F-5s, unless they're very smart. At medium to high altitude the difference is even more marked. The MiG-19 really likes being up high, and it climbs like a thing possessed, but usually F-5 players are aware of their issues with altitude and won't come up to play.

 

Vertical is safe to use, especially if you run your opponent out of missiles. The 19 excels at it, just watch your airspeed on the way back down and don't pull the stick too hard over the top.

[rossmum]

I had a lot of trouble at first, I just had to adjust to not having the 21's insane instantaneous turn/low speed handling, and be more patient with trying to get shots. You can't force them very well in the 19.

[Doc3908]

You guys inspired me to take the old girl out for a spin. I haven't flown this thing probably since April, so I'm rusty as heck, but she does handle decently. Did four fights against an AI ("high") F-5E: Got my butt kicked the first time, but then, once I got back the feel for how the Mig-19 handles, I got the F-5E shot down three times. So, she's not horrible, just takes a little getting used to... Here's the video from the last engagement:

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Doc3908

[Doc3908]

I've been playing with the F-5E and the Mig-19 over the last few days, and I have to admit that I have a much easier time in the F-5E - at least against AI (my AI is always set to "high", rarely to "excellent/ace"). In the last two days I flew about 15 one-vs-one engagements in each aircraft. With the F-5E, all but two resulted in the bandit being shot down (the other two he flew into the ground on his own). With the Mig-19, I struggled in EVERY engagement. I won about half of them, got shot down quite a few times, and a few times the F-5E flew itself into the ground. Rossmum mentioned earier than at 800km/h, the Mig-19 has an outstanding turn rate. That is true enough, and for what it's worth, the Mig can sustain that turn without afterburner almost indefinitely. The problem is that the AI-controlled F-5E can easily stay in the turn and, in fact, raise its nose to take shots (a few times he literally killed me with one shot through the cockpit). The AI can outturn me at any speed between 500km/h and 1000hm/h (I tried sustaining 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000km/h). And once he is on your tail, maneuvering doesn't help much since he's got a superior roll rate. I can't even outrun it: Hugging the waves, I managed to get to about 1300km/h or so, and the AI F-5 stayed right behind me, shooting merrily every time I straightened out for a second. So, the trick to winning in the Mig-19 seems to be not to let the F-5 out of your sight and stay behind it as best you can. Once the AI is behind you, the chances of a successful outcome are drastically diminished...

 

I'd love to try flying the same one-on-one missions against real players - really curious how the Mig-19 (and the F-5) would stack up without the AI advantages (and its stupidity and predictability).

Edited October 16, 2020 by Doc3908

[rossmum]

Player F-5s are in a world of hurt against a carefully-flown 19. They need to either hope for a missile shot (many F-5 pilots fire far too close, and I suspect most don't realise they can uncage the seekers either - I often deliberately bait missiles knowing they're too close to make the turn) or find a second F-5 to help them. If they keep their speed up they might last a few minutes longer, but the 19 is just so strong in a rate fight, vertical or horizontal, that eventually they're going to end up in trouble. The biggest problem for the 19 is actually getting the angles needed for a gun hit without immediately shedding all its speed, because it can become very helpless very quickly. I find it makes an excellent teammate for some 21s, as the 19 can keep the F-5s busy while the 21s kill it, or the 21s can set the 19 up for a guns pass by dragging the F-5 into a more gradual turn.