Recluse Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 This got marked as RESOLVED AS INTENDED with the following: Quote After review. As intended behaviour to assist pilot in acquiring target for release. Was left over logic from the days where the TPOD was non existent. Solution? Dont drop GBUs in CCIP and dont use the TPOD and DMT at the same time. Moving to resolved -AS INTENDED[/Quote] But it is NOT just GBU. Attached is a TRK with Mk82. Also observed with Rockeye -Select CCIP with Mk82.. designate a target in TPOD. Switch to DMT. Cannot get back to TPOD. Switch to AUTO... TPOD is now available. Switch back to CCIP, screen locks back to DMT. OR if you select DMT first (2nd TRK) and designate a target you cannot get back to TPOD. Undesignate, go to TPOD, Designate, you snap to the DMT and cannot go back unless you either undesignate OR switch to AUTO. Is this still the way it was intended? You CAN use both at the same time, just not in CCIP mode. AUTO mode you can swap freely between the two as you can with PGM/Mavericks etc.. Recluse_AV8B_CCIP_Mk82.trk Recluse_AV8B_CCIP_Mk82_2.trk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Ok, I understand. Question. What purpose is it that you require the use of both the TPOD and the DMT simultaneously. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 What purpose is it that you require the use of both the TPOD and the DMT simultaneously. I don't know is there, but the TPOD sometimes jumps to DMT by itself, so you are playing around with both even if you do not want to use DMT when carrying TPOD. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Right but I want to here Recluse's answer. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kappa Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Sorry Elmo, but I don't think it's working properly even as you explained it ... Only sometimes MFD switches to DMT when switching to CCIP, I didn't quite understand what the logic is. One thing is certain, it cannot be called "As intended" unless you are able to explain precisely how it works. I do not hide that I am rather disappointed with how you are handling this report. -- [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 36° Stormo Virtuale - Italian Virtual Flight Community www.36stormovirtuale.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Sorry Elmo, but I don't think it's working properly even as you explained it ... Only sometimes MFD switches to DMT when switching to CCIP, I didn't quite understand what the logic is. One thing is certain, it cannot be called "As intended" unless you are able to explain precisely how it works. I do not hide that I am rather disappointed with how you are handling this report. What I have been told is it is as intended. I nor are any of the testers experiencing the issues described under normal operating procedure. The issue is stemming from people using the DMT and the TPOD at the same time...which confusing alot of us. So I'm trying to get to the bottom of Why people are doing this and then providing guidance on how to avoid it. When the SME was asked about this behaviour he said that sometimes new guys in the fleet would use both and the DMT would revert as an NA system prior to the TPOD. After just moving to the TPOD and IGNORING the DMT completely this no longer occurred. I would suggest waiting until the next update because after that ABSOLUTELY NONE is going to want to use the DMT ever again. Thats fine to be disappointed, I get that not everyone will be pleased with choices made. From what I've gathered over the past few weeks I seem to be getting a good rapport with everyone from ED to the regular user. If you have concerns or want to talk in detail more the I urge you to reach out to me personally and set up a meeting in DISCORD so we can talk and I can possibly explain questions you may have. Im not here to do the biddings of my over masters, im here to engage with you guys and convey feelings, wishes and desires to the dev team in a constructive manner. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recluse Posted October 19, 2020 Author Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) Right but I want to here Recluse's answer. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk So it is similar to what others have said. There are cases where I WANT to use the TPOD, but the display gets locked to the DMT and I cannot use the TPOD OR any other function requiring return to the MENU on that DDI. I honestly prefer the DMT for non-lasing situations as it is simpler to operate, but if a target is too far away, the TPOD is better for fine tuning target acquisition. For CCIP drops, it is inconvenient when the TPOD (and indeed ANY of the other menu items from the DMT DDI) are inaccessible. Also when USING the TPOD and then selecting a CCIP weapon, to have the screen auto-shift to the DMT and be unable to return to the TPOD is problematic. I understand that it might be AS DESIGNED, but since you CAN use the DMT and TPOD at the SAME TIME with bombs in AUTO mode, and Mavericks, it seems odd that CCIP is DIFFERENT. Now, as I said in a previous post, CCIP IS different in the sense that in the absence of a DESIGNATED TARGET, the DMT tracks the CCIP pipper, so I can see where there might be more connection between the DMT and the CCIP mode than the others. I don't know if the TPOD is or can be similarly slaved to the CCIP pipper. I was playing with it last night, and as far as the ORIGINAL reason I was trying to get it to work (using Spudknocker's method for using a TPOD TDC targeting icon to help with CCIP drops) I can get it to work with the right sequence of events....where instead of using a WP designate, I can be in CCIP mode and use the TDC to designate for the TPOD and maintain both the CCIP mode and the TPOD. The first time I tried this from a WP designation, I was kind of unnerved that I was locked into the DMT when that page was up at the time of designation or when selecting CCIP AFTER designation with TPOD that I snapped back to DMT and couldn't return. If this is really the way it SHOULD be, or WILL be, then it's fine and I can find workarounds. It just seemed ODD that no other mode caused this issue. By the way, THANKS for allowing us to reopen discussion on this. Edited October 19, 2020 by Recluse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 So it is similar to what others have said. There are cases where I WANT to use the TPOD, but the display gets locked to the DMT and I cannot use the TPOD OR any other function requiring return to the MENU on that DDI. I honestly prefer the DMT for non-lasing situations as it is simpler to operate, but if a target is too far away, the TPOD is better for fine tuning target acquisition. For CCIP drops, it is inconvenient when the TPOD (and indeed ANY of the other menu items from the DMT DDI) are inaccessible. Also when USING the TPOD and then selecting a CCIP weapon, to have the screen auto-shift to the DMT and be unable to return to the TPOD is problematic. I understand that it might be AS DESIGNED, but since you CAN use the DMT and TPOD at the SAME TIME with bombs in AUTO mode, and Mavericks, it seems odd that CCIP is DIFFERENT. Now, as I said in a previous post, CCIP IS different in the sense that in the absence of a DESIGNATED TARGET, the DMT tracks the CCIP pipper, so I can see where there might be more connection between the DMT and the CCIP mode than the others. I don't know if the TPOD is or can be similarly slaved to the CCIP pipper. I was playing with it last night, and as far as the ORIGINAL reason I was trying to get it to work (using Spudknocker's method for using a TPOD TDC targeting icon to help with CCIP drops) I can get it to work with the right sequence of events....where instead of using a WP designate, I can be in CCIP mode and use the TDC to designate for the TPOD and maintain both the CCIP mode and the TPOD. The first time I tried this from a WP designation, I was kind of unnerved that I was locked into the DMT when that page was up at the time of designation or when selecting CCIP AFTER designation with TPOD that I snapped back to DMT and couldn't return. If this is really the way it SHOULD be, or WILL be, then it's fine and I can find workarounds. It just seemed ODD that no other mode caused this issue. By the way, THANKS for allowing us to reopen discussion on this. Right. I never closed this because there was some confusion in the way this was described. So as per the book on how designation should work, the behavior is correct. I've tried to get your bug to occur but I can't. Ill have to get some testers to give it a whirl but I'm hesitant to make more TPOD or DMT reports as there are some SIGNIFICANT changes coming down the road. And while your "preference" may be to use the DMT, the SOP is to primarily use the TPOD. It and the DMT are equally accurate but the TPOD is more accurate when you combine it with the laser ranging portion. I will leave this unmarked for now but might get just pushed off as old behavior after the new update but we shall see. You will all be pleasantly surprised. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 It and the DMT are equally accurate but the TPOD is more accurate when you combine it with the laser ranging portion. Does the TPOD really take all the same sensor inputs that DMT does take (wind, speed, slip, altitude etc) and calculate the angle rate? As that is the whole point of the ARBS system that one doesn't need any laser or radar to range target as the rate will provide more accurate result. The Harrier+Hornet pilots has said that DMT was more accurate than the Hornet with even radar ranging in various competitions. So considering that TPOD anyways would need a laser to be enabled to get a target elevation difference, it should inform that TPOD doesn't have a angle rate capability of ARBS system. Otherwise one wouldn't need laser (or radar) to try to calculate solution. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Does the TPOD really take all the same sensor inputs that DMT does take (wind, speed, slip, altitude etc) and calculate the angle rate? As that is the whole point of the ARBS system that one doesn't need any laser or radar to range target as the rate will provide more accurate result. The Harrier+Hornet pilots has said that DMT was more accurate than the Hornet with even radar ranging in various competitions. So considering that TPOD anyways would need a laser to be enabled to get a target elevation difference, it should inform that TPOD doesn't have a angle rate capability of ARBS system. Otherwise one wouldn't need laser (or radar) to try to calculate solution. Well the TPOD receives information from the way point if its been entered correctly and is designated but can be made more accurate with the laser. Not to mention you can employ alot more accurately and in the dark. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recluse Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 Right. I never closed this because there was some confusion in the way this was described. So as per the book on how designation should work, the behavior is correct. I've tried to get your bug to occur but I can't. Ill have to get some testers to give it a whirl but I'm hesitant to make more TPOD or DMT reports as there are some SIGNIFICANT changes coming down the road. And while your "preference" may be to use the DMT, the SOP is to primarily use the TPOD. It and the DMT are equally accurate but the TPOD is more accurate when you combine it with the laser ranging portion. I will leave this unmarked for now but might get just pushed off as old behavior after the new update but we shall see. You will all be pleasantly surprised. Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk Ok, thanks for the input. Eagerly awaiting the the new updates!! Meanwhile, regarding reproducing the issue, I thought I covered a lot of scenarios in my Mk82 TRK files, though it is often hard to get a good idea of switchology and button pushing in a TRK. BTW, TRKs recorded in STABLE. I haven't tried it in OB, but I believe others have observed the same thing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 But again, I'd suggest waiting till the next update lol. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I'm gonna stop there and remove some comments cause this is getting way off topic and the real issue is becoming buried. If you want to open a discussion then you're free to do so in the main razbam or harrier section. Sorry about this guys. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper31 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just thought i'd throw in that i've seen this issue as well. Using the TPOD to self-lase GBU-12 targets, and when I box my GBU12s it automatically switches over to the DMT from the TPOD and I cant get out of it unless I unbox the GBU12s. Even if I turn off the DMT switch, it will just go to the X'd DMT screen. It doesnt happen every time though, and I cant reliably replicate the problem. It SEEMS that if the TPOD is in HTS mode its less likely to do it, but it still happens intermittently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZBAM_ELMO Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Bug is no longer present from last update. Marking as RESOLVED and moving to RESOLVED. Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass. — Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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