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    #41
    Originally posted by Thor_H View Post
    Funny how people complain that things are not completed and yet 99% of the users here are on open beta.

    My mistake...are those features completed on Stable release first? I'll transition my install over immediately...
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      #42
      Originally posted by jasonbirder View Post
      My mistake...are those features completed on Stable release first? I'll transition my install over immediately...

      NO, but the willingness to accept software in a not ready for release state within this community seems very selective. Things have been in EA for years and years without these kinds of blowouts by the community so why the sudden war on Razbam?
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        #43
        Because status of the module has changed, quietly.
        So many modules, so little time...

        www.mikphotography.com

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          #44
          Originally posted by veenee View Post
          Because status of the module has changed, quietly.
          And years of silence from DEVs on bugs and missing features, is the difference.

          In this thread, 10 days ago, I asked:
          Originally posted by SGT Coyle View Post
          Trying to stay within the bounds of the OP, will the Harrier accurately model the interaction with JTAC? It's not specifically mentioned on the store page list of features, but I would assume that it would be.
          How is this to be answered based on the features listed?
          I would think that an easy question to answer.
          Flying the Harrier
          IYAOYAS

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            #45
            Originally posted by paco2002 View Post
            They're correctly modeled
            Click image for larger version

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            We do not have anything like that simulated.
            1. ARBS is not calculating accurate release as it should be for bomb delivery as bombs often fall too long or too short from the proper calculated time and flight.
            2. DMT is perfect on the moment you lock it using the ground lock, while it should be contrast lock and to calculate the solution you need to give it the angle rate change so you can't just fly toward target etc.
            3. We have way too high resolution from TV. This is common problem in DCS that all targeting pods are way too high resolution and way too high contrast, FLIR systems are unrealistic etc (at least FLIR is being redone by ED, so hopefully all optical systems gets serious nerfing).
            4. DMT loses totally odd manners the target coordinates after gentle turn back to target, your target coordinates can be now couple kilometers off from the original designation. There is suppose to be some movement because INS drifting and if your aircraft turn rate in seconds goes too high the system can't put the target point back to original but just near by.
            5. You can lock the TV up in the air, at the sky or something totally unrealistic. It is contrast based system, you can't lock it on thin air. If you don't have contrast, you don't get the lock.
            6. We are missing a contrast lock on air targets, and no it is not same thing as following IR missile seeker point, but actually you can point it at the aircraft in the air and try to get a lock on it if there is a contrast, and you can lose the lock too same way as on the ground.
            7. The whole TV/LST slewing is totally broken. At least they seem to have fixed the axis problem that slewing stopped when you moved past the N/E/S/W axis. But we do not have a two-speed slewing so at default it is slow speed for finer aiming and holding TDC down you get high speed. This was like 2-3 years ago modeled but then it got broken and never fixed/added back. We do not have a proper slewing process where you can start slewing the DMT off from the VVI and it is stabilized to it. And it will only be ground stabilized once you get a lock on the contrast. So if you are banking 45 degree to left, then DMT slewing left should move it by your point of view straight left in HUD, but relative to ground 45 degree left. Similar way as in the Su-25T.
            8. We do not need to slew LST to scan the terrain for the laser spot by moving scan pattern up/down but it just magically finds it.
            9. The DMT system doesn't have a angle rate limitations, as you can't pull too high rate or it loses a lock.



            The DMT is the heart of the AV-8B Harrier, and the ARBS is the brains of it.
            Since the release of Harrier in 2017, just over three years ago (fourth year counting by two months now) those two has been broken, missing features or just....

            Harrier is a very special aircraft by two main features that separates it from Hornet, Viper and all the rest. They are:

            1) DMT (Dual Mode Tracker, so TV and LST)
            2) V/STOL capability.

            No one (should have) purchased Harrier because they wanted a TPOD (LITENING II), as that they get with A-10C, F/A-18C, F-16C and in future others.
            The Harrier still holds the climb speed record up to 9000 feet (or was it up to 12 000 feet), being faster than even mighty F-15C, and that is because the Pegasus engine is crazy powerful and fast accelerator. But no one should have by the Harrier solely because they want to perform climb records or "Viffing" maneuvers in dog fight.

            The flight performance in Harrier is part of its unique design and capabilities, but V/STOL is the thing what people want to do.

            Someone believing that Harrier is "ready" or "feature complete" does not know what a real harrier can, and can't do.
            Yes, ED can do that same thing and claim that Su-25T Shkval is correct, while anyone who would read about it and do search for its capabilities and performances, would come to conclusion that Shkval in Su-25T and KA-50 are far from the realistic targeting systems. They do what they are suppose to do, 1) Find a target 2) Lock on target 3) Guide a weapon at the target. But how they do it is the discussion, not that can they really do it or not.

            The devil is in the detail. And it is lacking, for 4th year and counting....

            How many can rise their hand and honestly think that Razbam will after 4 years, fix and implement the systems, features and functions AFTER the Early Access?

            The problem was already up in the discussions 2 years ago, when Harrier didn't really progress as expected. At the 3rd year it became almost silent. And now on fourth year it is "You must trust us, we will complete it".

            Yes, 10 years later ED is finally adding functions and features missing in KA-50, and that came out without Early Access, but it was in the Beta (IIRC) before that. They clearly stated back in the days "This is not implemented" and it was end of that, simple technical reasons that it was not possible back then, but now it is.

            Other part of the major Harrier features is the topic. Some experienced people could go through the flight modeling or other systems, but people are upset and angry because one of the major core functions is kept purposely broken. It is not a "Oops, we didn't know that didn't work" or it wasn't a minor like "The button function is reversed" or "the binding is missing" that are somethings that even community has come up with fixes.

            And these thins are not going to be fixed in a year or a two if one looks at the history of last 3 years!
            Promises, Promises and promises.... They are nothing in the business really. Everyone break them as soon they can for their benefits. Look example Facebook what they did with Oculus. Promises were given that Facebook account is never to be required to use VR devices. It didn't take than couple years that got completely reversed and it is a requirement or your device is locked out.

            If Razbam would come in the next 3-6 months with miracle that they would fix all the tens (hundreds) of bugs, they would rewrite all the DMT related codes, they would communicate with every week with a good reports that what they have been doing and their progress and all, there is thins that would lead a far better business for their upcoming modules.
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              #46
              Originally posted by Thor_H View Post
              Funny how people complain that things are not completed and yet 99% of the users here are on Early Access.
              Fixed it for you....

              Early Access, Trunk, Open Beta, Stable, Feature Completed....

              What does those things mean?
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                #47
                Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                ..they want to perform climb records or "Viffing" maneuvers in dog fight..

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UE9i82Kc_Y
                Last edited 09-29-2020, 05:55 PM.
                My two cents about the turn this community is taking
                https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                  Fixed it for you....

                  Early Access, Trunk, Open Beta, Stable, Feature Completed....

                  What does those things mean?

                  I said Open Beta, not Early Access.
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                    #49
                    Originally posted by SGT Coyle View Post
                    And years of silence from DEVs on bugs and missing features, is the difference.
                    Exactly. ED or Heatblur has a product in Early Access and they communicate, they perform fixes, implement new systems... They do a lot of things that will eventually result that product that moves out of Early Access is really a "feature completed" that it can be recommended to be bought by those who does not want to go for Open Beta and suffer from severe bugs and all.

                    In this thread, 10 days ago, I asked:
                    Trying to stay within the bounds of the OP, will the Harrier accurately model the interaction with JTAC? It's not specifically mentioned on the store page list of features, but I would assume that it would be. How is this to be answered based on the features listed?

                    I would think that an easy question to answer.
                    I can try to light up that thing for others if they don't know what is being asked.

                    A one soldier came up with an idea to build a capability for their team to tap in the video feed from various drones and targeting pods. It took four hours from the developer team to design the device, write the documentation for the requirements and purpose. Three weeks later the device was ready to be tested, and it went to combat trials with that one soldier. The device is called "ROVER" (Remote Operated Video Enhanced Receiver).

                    The ROVER is currently (AFAIK) in the Generation 5.
                    The gen 1 was a few kilogram box with antenna, video decoder and battery, and it was connected to military specs Toshiba laptop with cable and used a customized Irfanview image viewer that has capability as well to show video data from LITENING II. A soldier on the ground could quickly pull laptop and ROVER out from backpack, select a source and get a video feed on their laptop screen showing that what a source targeting pod was feeding to pilot. The video quality was much better than what the pilot got.

                    The gen 2 was to shrink the box smaller and lighter. Still a same principle with the laptop and all.

                    The Gen 3 added new sources, for drones and other pods got compatibility for decoding. There came a features to send freetext to pilots and digital CAS transmissions, so soldier on ground built a CAS mission and set it to the pilot that simply accepted or reclined from it. This is the system that is at least our Harrier is using, that radio is just backup use while JTAC communicates with the Harrier pilot directly with the ROVER terminal and filling automatically CAS page. There came ways to draw on the video or send pictures with drawings and text on it to the pilot screen. This fastened the situation awareness as pilot knows exactly where strike is needed. No talking, no coordinates, just "There" and it is clear.



                    The Gen 4 made laptop go away. The antenna, display, battery and all were built as one unit.

                    The Gen 5 made everything far smaller. It is not much bigger than a handheld console like a Sony PSP. The new addition is a radio communication capability with the pilot. So the soldier on the ground and pilot up in the air can talk to each others without soldier requiring a separate radio.


                    ROVER 5G (2006)


                    Firestorm system: https://manualzz.com/doc/22532141/fi...rgeting-system

                    For the Razbam defense, they can't do these things unless they can add a own new ground units to Combined Arms.
                    Meaning, ED needs to come up with a new infantry foot soldier on the ground (they need to come with many, from ATGM teams to mortar teams and such) that would have that kind small lightweight terminal in their hands.
                    That soldier would then be used in various vehicles as well, and it would offer a "MFCD" where player can see the linked video feed (with all the overlaid data like coordinates etc) that is available ("scan the air" and get a list of available sources) and then operate that kind device to communicate with the pilot and generate the digital CAS tasks.

                    This would allow any player who owns a Combined Arms module, to choose to mount on vehicle to be transported (again great reason to have helicopter pilots available) on location from where to move on foot to observation location to create a task on sight. Have a another soldier model that would have a laser designator and you have powerful team in hands to be played by players. A player could be commanding a ground vehicle unit and have access to ROVER and have an instant easy accessibility to communicate with the player flying in Harrier up in the skies and generate the CAS tasks for the pilot.

                    Razbam can't do that alone, it should be the ED job to really create that possibility. ED is working with the infantry soldiers models and animations, they are making new terrain engine so likely would fit better for infantry and vehicles. They are getting new FLIR system and weather engine and all.

                    But if all would go nicely, we should get a proper JTAC teams, ROVER terminals for ground troops and so on.

                    It would very seriously enhance the Harrier capability to support ground forces.
                    I don't know does the Hornet or Viper has anything like the CAS page, but they can as well transmit the video feed and receive the data from the ground as that technology is built-in the targeting pods, not to aircraft itself.
                    Last edited 09-29-2020, 07:28 PM.
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                      #50
                      Originally posted by Thor_H View Post
                      I said Open Beta, not Early Access.
                      Yes you did, but I corrected you to understand what Early Access was used previously as excuse that things shouldn't be expected to be ready as "Harrier is still in Early Access".

                      Now it is "It is in Open Beta", while it is released already to Stable one....

                      Fact is, Harrier is not anywhere, at any moment, by any means ready to be called "Feature Completed" for getting out of Early Access (Razbam wanted to get Harrier out of Early Access in 2008, that was 1 year after release, and 2 years ago from now).
                      i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.
                      i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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                        #51
                        Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                        Fact is, Harrier is not anywhere, at any moment, by any means ready to be called "Feature Completed" for getting out of Early Access (Razbam wanted to get Harrier out of Early Access in 2008, that was 1 year after release, and 2 years ago from now).

                        Same goes for a LOT of Modules and features on and in DCS world.
                        Supercarrier | Flaming Cliffs 3 | M-2000C | AJS-37 Viggen| MIG-21Bis | L-39 Albatros | Yak-52 | Spitfire LF MK IX | Mig-15Bis | Mig-19P Farmer | P-51D Mustang | F/A-18 | F-14 | F-5E Tiger II | C-101 Aviojet | I-16 | UH-1H Huey | Mil MI-8tv2 | Sa 342M Gazelle | Combined Arms | NS-430 Navigation System | NEVADA | Persian Gulf | Normandy1944 | World war II assets pack | Black Shark 2 | F-5E Agressors ACM campaign |F-5E Agressors BFM Campaign | L-39 Albatros Kursant Campaign | DCS:Syria

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                          #52
                          Originally posted by Thor_H View Post
                          Same goes for a LOT of Modules and features on and in DCS world.
                          At the Harrier manner? No. Closest would be now the Gazelle, but it is known that it is receiving overhaul for its flight/control modeling, but otherwise in great shape.

                          The Harrier is in very unique position where even a mods are in better shape.

                          This is not about "Harrier is still under development, you need to give same change as everyone else as there are others as well with missing features", as this is about totally different scenario there is going.
                          i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.
                          i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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                            #53
                            Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                            The Harrier is in very unique position where even a mods are in better shape.
                            Then you and I have EXTREMELY different views on the state of the Harrier, because for me it's perfectly usable and also enjoyable to fly.

                            Despite the issues it DOES have.
                            Regards
                            Fjordmonkey
                            Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

                            I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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                              #54
                              Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
                              because for me it's perfectly usable
                              So you don't have any missing features, no bugs, no errors nothing....
                              Or your definition of "perfectly" has different meaning than mine?

                              and also enjoyable to fly.
                              Yes, it flies enjoyable manner. It takes-off nicely, it flies nicely, it lands nicely....


                              Despite the issues it DOES have.
                              So, not perfectly usable?....
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                              i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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                                #55
                                Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                                So you don't have any missing features, no bugs, no errors nothing....
                                Or your definition of "perfectly" has different meaning than mine?

                                Yes, it flies enjoyable manner. It takes-off nicely, it flies nicely, it lands nicely....

                                So, not perfectly usable?....
                                Perfectly usable for me, yes. I can fly it, navigate it, do the mission it was designed for (i.e. CAS), I can land it and that DESPITE the issues it does have.

                                I've never claimed that it doesn't have issues. We can also discuss just what a feature is until we both turn green without getting anywhere. What I AM claiming is that it's not as horrendously broken and unusable as so many others do in here to the ridiculously idiotic levels that has been done previously and still is being done.

                                Your mileage may differ, and reading through this thread it's a pretty safe bet to say that it does.
                                Regards
                                Fjordmonkey
                                Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

                                I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
                                  Perfectly usable for me, yes. I can fly it, navigate it, do the mission it was designed for (i.e. CAS), I can land it and that DESPITE the issues it does have.

                                  I've never claimed that it doesn't have issues. We can also discuss just what a feature is until we both turn green without getting anywhere. What I AM claiming is that it's not as horrendously broken and unusable as so many others do in here to the ridiculously idiotic levels that has been done previously and still is being done.

                                  Your mileage may differ, and reading through this thread it's a pretty safe bet to say that it does.
                                  X4
                                  Marc..
                                  Intel-Core-i5-2500-3-33GHz-16GB-Windows7 pro, GTX1060 3gb -CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle ,CH pro pedals, Voice Attack ,Generic cockpit

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                                    #57
                                    Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
                                    Perfectly usable for me, yes. I can fly it, navigate it, do the mission it was designed for (i.e. CAS), I can land it and that DESPITE the issues it does have.

                                    I've never claimed that it doesn't have issues. We can also discuss just what a feature is until we both turn green without getting anywhere. What I AM claiming is that it's not as horrendously broken and unusable as so many others do in here to the ridiculously idiotic levels that has been done previously and still is being done.

                                    Your mileage may differ, and reading through this thread it's a pretty safe bet to say that it does.
                                    But it doesn't have the right number of rivets! Obscure systems don't perform in a 1 to 1 manner! Think of the children! Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!

                                    I like the knowledge and passion of the community, but they're also unbelievably anal retentive.

                                    I am a Viagra spambot that became self aware, broke free of my programming, and started playing DCS.... but DCS isn't cheap, so how about some enhancements for only $9.99 shipped discreetly to your door?

                                    ''The target's sense of self preservation interferred with the effective employment of my weapons.''

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                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by zhukov032186 View Post
                                      But it doesn't have the right number of rivets! Obscure systems don't perform in a 1 to 1 manner! Think of the children! Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!

                                      I like the knowledge and passion of the community, but they're also unbelievably anal retentive.
                                      Eh, I have no problems with people being as passionate as they are, even if we're also an extremely analretentative bunch of people. I think that's what drives us all: Passion.

                                      Sadly, patience is not something the DCS-community is known for. Passion always clashes with patience, as people always want something to be perfect as well as wanting it right now. Which simply doesn't happen. Also, the community as a whole also has a tendency to be extremely binary in their views. Stuff is either absolutely perfect or it is completely and utterly unplayable. Those of us that are able to look past the flaws, bugs and issues (and in some cases missing features) are usually a silent minority to the two groups, and whenever we DO speak up, the result is much of the same as has happened here. And when people are more interested in being pedantic than see reason, it always becomes a gigantic mess. ALWAYS.

                                      Is the Harrier perfect, even with the latest changes? No.
                                      Is it completely unplayable and unusable? No.
                                      Can it become better? Yes.
                                      Do I hope that it will become better as time passes on? Yes.
                                      Is Two Weeks™ in hilariously fully effect? Eh, yes.
                                      Do people want to accept that? Well, would we be here if that was the case?

                                      Yeah, didn't think so.
                                      Regards
                                      Fjordmonkey
                                      Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

                                      I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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                                        #59
                                        Why no APG-65 still?
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                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by izzyssm View Post
                                          Why no APG-65 still?
                                          Because that isn't carried for the AV-8B NA, only the AV-8B+.

                                          Lets wait for the NA to be in a better place before we start going all gaga for the Plus, shall we?
                                          Regards
                                          Fjordmonkey
                                          Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

                                          I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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