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    #21
    Originally posted by Mr_sukebe View Post
    Another wall of text.
    Do you really think that it will add value today.

    At least give RB the opportunity to catch their breath after their existing statement.
    Give me 15 minutes and I would come up with a better statement (with all usual typos, grammar errors etc) than what Razbam has given to this date. If I would think it about an hour or two and I would run it through a professional translator, it would be literally perfect, but still without facts from razbam business with ED. And they should both have a very good idea what their business plan is for any given product, just as any business owner.

    The whole problem is a major trust question about whole Early Access model, why even ED should respond to this seriously. As the official word is now that ED doesn't control anything about when product gets out of EA and it is all up to studio itself make the decision....

    OP wrote well about the problem, and it is warning shot to everyone that Razbam has fired over a stern of all customers of ED.
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      #22
      Originally posted by Harlikwin View Post
      And yet we really only got some weird deflection post about shiny SVG grafix. Something literally no one asked about, or cared about.
      In fact I tried compare the screenshots between examples hard, and I couldn't notice that difference, so I thought they must have post duplicates of one rendering only....

      One of the problems I saw in the SVG idea is that it really is not so great for rendering visual effects. It is fairly heavy to use a SVG over bitmaps, and especially if one wants to have a special effects like blur (glow) and transparency etc. Why typically SVG is used on the fly source for rendering first it to bitmap for given resolution and then apply effects on bitmap image for speed and quality reasons.

      So SVG is great as source, but just bad for output, unless you want that sharp simple text and forms.

      The SVG suggestion for graphics engines always reminds me from this:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RyU50qbvzQ
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llnzK2H_HZo
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwVu2BWLZqA
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IztxeoHhoyM

      And if someone wants to understand better computer graphics possibilities, this is very good for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcJ1Jvtef0
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        #23
        Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
        One of the problems I saw in the SVG idea is that it really is not so great for rendering visual effects. It is fairly heavy to use a SVG over bitmaps, and especially if one wants to have a special effects like blur (glow) and transparency etc. Why typically SVG is used on the fly source for rendering first it to bitmap for given resolution and then apply effects on bitmap image for speed and quality reasons.

        So SVG is great as source, but just bad for output, unless you want that sharp simple text and forms.
        The SVG-change only applies to symbology on the HUD and MPCD's. Which are all simple graphics (the moving map is NOT affected by this, as that's delivered by ED's systems). The reasoning for using SVG is simple: Far less memory intensive than .DDS-textures, far easier to render for the system and both clearer and faster, especially for the VR-users. We all know that DCS is a bit of a CPU- and memory-hog, so this change should help a bit with that.
        Regards
        Fjordmonkey
        Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

        I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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          #24
          They mentioned SVG changes because many of the reported bugs were display-related. I think Ron was trying to say they were in the middle of the SVG rework when this all happened. Many of the fixes were going to be in the SVG re-work.

          When they say they're doing double-work, what they're saying is they'll now incorporate the changes in the raster-based current iteration so the bug fixes don't have to wait for SVG re-work.

          As someone who has done a lot of web development, SVG is ubiquitous, but that is because we have built-in support for them. I put an SVG on a page (usually a logo or other graphic that can be drawn mathematically) and your browser just knows what to do with it. This is likely much more complex in DCS. Deka has also come out and said their next module will be one without a glass cockpit because it was so difficult for them to do, so it does sound like the re-work would be quite time-consuming.

          Not weighing on one side or another. I may not be a Harrier SME, but I am a software SME.
          Last edited 09-19-2020, 08:04 AM.

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            #25
            Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
            The SVG-change only applies to symbology on the HUD and MPCD's. Which are all simple graphics (the moving map is NOT affected by this, as that's delivered by ED's systems). The reasoning for using SVG is simple: Far less memory intensive than .DDS-textures, far easier to render for the system and both clearer and faster, especially for the VR-users. We all know that DCS is a bit of a CPU- and memory-hog, so this change should help a bit with that.
            i guess what Fri13 wanted to say is that SVG might fit perfectly for the mfds but not for the hud because of degrading the visual experience there, eg glow and so on.
            u can simply look at the viggens hud which is imo most beautiful and immersive , this won t be possible with SVG
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            AV8B nozzle lever
            https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=233670
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              #26
              Originally posted by FoxDelta View Post
              i guess what Fri13 wanted to say is that SVG might fit perfectly for the mfds but not for the hud because of degrading the visual experience there, eg glow and so on.
              u can simply look at the viggens hud which is imo most beautiful and immersive , this won t be possible with SVG
              Until I see the end result, I'll reserve my judgement. The images I HAVE seen of the Harrier-HUD in SVG seems to have little to no loss of quality compared to the DDS-method. And if I get a performace-gain without a quality-gain, I'm happy.
              Regards
              Fjordmonkey
              Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

              I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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                #27
                Trying to stay within the bounds of the OP, will the Harrier accurately model the interaction with JTAC? It's not specifically mentioned on the store page list of features, but I would assume that it would be.


                Originally posted by Schmidtfire View Post
                Can JTAC send coordinates and info directly to the CAS page?

                How is this to be answered based on the features listed?
                Flying the Harrier
                IYAOYAS

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                  #28
                  Very well said Pikey
                  Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
                    The SVG-change only applies to symbology on the HUD and MPCD's. Which are all simple graphics (the moving map is NOT affected by this, as that's delivered by ED's systems). The reasoning for using SVG is simple: Far less memory intensive than .DDS-textures, far easier to render for the system and both clearer and faster, especially for the VR-users. We all know that DCS is a bit of a CPU- and memory-hog, so this change should help a bit with that.
                    Yes I know, but I can't see such a difference that should be even mentioned. And vector graphics are not "makes your performance better" kind answers really. And likely not either with their quality.

                    I work a lot with vector and bitmap graphics to know that there is a "silver bullet" to be offered by Razbam as explanation.
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                      #30
                      Originally posted by ShadowXP View Post
                      Until I see the end result, I'll reserve my judgement. The images I HAVE seen of the Harrier-HUD in SVG seems to have little to no loss of quality compared to the DDS-method. And if I get a performace-gain without a quality-gain, I'm happy.
                      It all depends about what is your starting point. If your previous work is bad, then any improvement will be an improvement.
                      But these things ain't silver bullets.

                      One example just needs to go take a look a history of a computer graphics font rendering, example how you right now are reading this text, that how many problems and challenges there has been about getting text crisp and easily readable.... And answer for that has not been "Let's make it SVG and all problems are gone" without own kind problems and challenges.
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                        #31
                        Originally posted by SGT Coyle View Post
                        Trying to stay within the bounds of the OP, will the Harrier accurately model the interaction with JTAC? It's not specifically mentioned on the store page list of features, but I would assume that it would be.


                        A problem really is about trust here that what is expected from a Early Access itself, and Razbam truly seems to be trying to go through where the fence is lowest and where rules are shady.


                        How is this to be answered based on the features listed?
                        It really isn't answered, as the product description does just gather major features that should somewhere include that feature too.

                        But I would already know the answer that is, we are not going to see a TPOD video (with coordinates and all) transmitted to JTAC as that is a ED task to do first. (Who doesn't know, the targeting pod allows transmit video to ground forces who basically can just select the source of transmission and see what is seen by all kind drones and targeting pods. So for a JTAC driver on ground they would get a better quality video screen with them).
                        And we likely don't get JTAC to hand-off 9-LINE data digitally to Harrier pilot CAS PAGE to be seen and even edited etc. Meaning the JTAC could be making multiple requests and Harrier pilot gets all automatically filled in.

                        IMHO all these fall in the Harrier core features as it is digital Attack aircraft after all. But likely this will go to "ED needs to do it first".
                        So likely breast they can do is to use a F10 map with markers, as after all Combined Arms IS ED's product.
                        Last edited 09-20-2020, 08:23 AM.
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                          #32
                          So has there been any actual answer on if the ARBS and other systems are gonna actually get credibly modeled?
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                            #33
                            Originally Posted by ruxtmp View Post
                            So does this mean that a core functionality of this aircraft will not be implemented until Razbam gets access to how it functions? As NATOPS would not be available to them due to export limitations are we also to assume that the possibility of it being implemented is pretty much nil? Finally does this also hold true for ARBS implementation?
                            I cannot say for certain but when I have information regarding it I will share it.

                            This Question was posted in another thread regarding the LOFT mode but I think Elmo's response may also include the ARBS. I would not expect an answer anytime soon based on the response.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Originally posted by Harlikwin View Post
                              So has there been any actual answer on if the ARBS and other systems are gonna actually get credibly modeled?
                              I can not trust that, as I can't currently trust Early Access system.
                              Talk is cheap, promises are even cheaper, and all comes with costs higher.

                              This was not just Razbam project that got affected, but all and future Early Access modules.
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                                #35
                                Originally posted by Harlikwin View Post
                                So has there been any actual answer on if the ARBS and other systems are gonna actually get credibly modeled?
                                They're correctly modeled

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                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by paco2002 View Post
                                  They're correctly modeled

                                  No, not at all. Currently, the ARBS acts like a perfect "INS" mode, with the INS designation mode not even implemented.


                                  The ARBS needs a track for a certain time to compute an accurate slant range. Currently, it is instantly "perfect" and can track anything, including untextured flat terrain.


                                  There's a lot more depth to targeting systems than just "put the thing on the thing". The A-10C does a good job of explaining that, so does the Viggen.

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                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by paco2002 View Post
                                    They're correctly modeled
                                    LOFL... Nope... not even remotely close.
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                                      #38
                                      I think we will have to just accept Flaming Cliffs level of simulation with the benefit of a clickable cockpit.

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by ruxtmp View Post
                                        I think we will have to just accept Flaming Cliffs level of simulation with the benefit of a clickable cockpit.
                                        Or employ the shocking concept of having a bit of patience.

                                        Yes yes, I know. You've been patient up to this point etc etc etc.

                                        Demanding things right away AND expecting them to be perfect is a surefire sign of the times, I guess.
                                        Regards
                                        Fjordmonkey
                                        Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

                                        I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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                                          #40
                                          Funny how people complain that things are not completed and yet 99% of the users here are on open beta.
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