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    Incorrect unguided rockets type

    IIRC with the F-5E release, two distinct types of unguided rockets were added to DCS:

    The old FFAR rockets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folding-Fin_Aerial_Rocket
    The new HYDRA rockets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_70

    In DCS they look the same, but the FFAR's have much worse accuracy, and it shows. It seems that in the Harrier we can only select FFAR's, which is pretty weird, as they were replaced by HYDRA's long time ago, so we should have those instead of the Vietnam era FFAR's.

    Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

    #2
    Hi some1,


    We have both the Hydra 70 and FFAR rockets for the Harrier. Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) while the FFAR can be carried with either LAU-3 (19 rockets per pod) or LAU-68 (7 rockets per pod).



    Cheers.

    Comment


      #3
      I never knew FFAR and Hydra were different.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson View Post
        Hi some1,


        We have both the Hydra 70 and FFAR rockets for the Harrier. Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) while the FFAR can be carried with either LAU-3 (19 rockets per pod) or LAU-68 (7 rockets per pod).



        Cheers.
        Interesting, is that intentional, or just an omission?

        Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Frederf View Post
          I never knew FFAR and Hydra were different.
          I'm not sure, in DCS for the F-5E, 2.75" seems to have been used to identify the Hydra (Mk66 motor) and FFAR perhaps the older Mk4/Mk40 motors or the difference between Mk66 Mod 2/3 and Mk66 Mod 4 but I haven't looked at DCS's data files to see if there's a real difference.



          AFAIK IRL earlier launchers (up to LAU-61B/A and -68C/A) could only be used with the older MK 4/MK 40 motors but there's nothing in the AV-8B tactical manual to suggest the USMC don't use FFAR Mk 66 Mod 2 i.e. the Hydra (with modern LAU-61C/A and -68D/A launchers).



          As can be seen there is a discrepancy between what is available for triple mounted pods (i.e. 3x LAU-68 ) and single pods (i.e. 1x LAU-68/LAU-3).


          Edit: Checking a 350 KTAS AV8B @ 3600 ft MSL in Tacview:

          • LAU-68 *1 = FFAR Mk1 HE reach ~1230 KTAS @ 3600 ft = approx 2100 fps which is close to the Mk 40 Motor, 1965 fps burnout velocity

          • LAU-68 *3 = HYDRA 70 M151 reach ~1800 KTAS @ 3600 ft = approx 3000 fps which is higher than the Mk 66 Motor Mod 1, 2425 fps burnout velocity but may be due to the launch platform's 350 KTAS or different motor specs.

          Clearly there is a difference between FFAR and 2.75" rocket performance in DCS


          Note: The US Army expected Mk 40 Rocket Motor training inventories to be expired by 1993, IMHO it seems unlikely the USMC was still using them on the AV-8B N/A modelled in DCS (but not impossible as the AV-8B N/A was first delivered to the USMC in September 1989).
          Attached Files
          Last edited 06-27-2018, 04:34 AM. Reason: Additional 2.75 and FFAR rocket testing in 2.5.2.18736
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          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson View Post
            Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) ...
            Although true for smoke, illumination, etc. it's not true for HE, HEAT or WP warheads.

            ITERs (BRU-42/A)

            HE, HEAT and WP Hydras can only be loaded if the LAU-68's are on triple mounts i.e. 3x7 = 21 rockets

            If the LAU-68 is mounted singularly (BRU-36) it can only be loaded with the older FFAR HE, HEAT and WP rockets in DCS.

            AFAIK this is not a RL limitation.
            i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 32GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

            Comment


              #7
              Ramsay


              Yeah, just noticed that, on the inner station, you can load M151 but only with triple mounts, on the middle stations you can't load M151 even on Lau-68. I think it's a bug.

              Comment


                #8
                I just thought about this topic today and did some testing. I can tell the OP at least for the Mk5 vs Mk 151 rocket there is a NIGHT AND DAY difference in accuracy. The Mk151 blows the older FFAR Mk5 out of the water. So there is that.
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                Comment


                  #9
                  Is there any update to this, or atleast some answers to the discrepancy?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Of course not.

                    I also posted a bug related to this in the bug section, but no response there either.

                    Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Zues is aware of this thread


                      Water cooled i9-9900K | Maximus Code XI MB | 2080ti | 64GB DDR4 Ram | Winwings Hotas | MFG Crosswinds | HP Reverb



                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by =DECOY= View Post
                        Zues is aware of this thread
                        Thanks for letting us know, Decoy!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Is there any update on this?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by some1 View Post
                            Of course not.

                            I also posted a bug related to this in the bug section, but no response there either.
                            Can you post the link to the original report, so I add it to the community bug tracker.
                            Thanks
                            Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Guess that's the one: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=243813

                              Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

                              Comment


                                #16
                                On the other hand, I always pack the older FFAR rockets. Two reasons. One, you can set the salvo to empty the entire tube faster Two, the pod has it’s front cover modeled. Still very much seen on modern Harriers. Flying around with Hydra pods without a front cover looks ugly (and should maybe create more drag aswell)

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Added them to the bug tracker
                                  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
                                  Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s

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