some1 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 IIRC with the F-5E release, two distinct types of unguided rockets were added to DCS: The old FFAR rockets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folding-Fin_Aerial_Rocket The new HYDRA rockets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_70 In DCS they look the same, but the FFAR's have much worse accuracy, and it shows. It seems that in the Harrier we can only select FFAR's, which is pretty weird, as they were replaced by HYDRA's long time ago, so we should have those instead of the Vietnam era FFAR's. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Hi some1, We have both the Hydra 70 and FFAR rockets for the Harrier. Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) while the FFAR can be carried with either LAU-3 (19 rockets per pod) or LAU-68 (7 rockets per pod). Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 I never knew FFAR and Hydra were different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Hi some1, We have both the Hydra 70 and FFAR rockets for the Harrier. Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) while the FFAR can be carried with either LAU-3 (19 rockets per pod) or LAU-68 (7 rockets per pod). Cheers. Interesting, is that intentional, or just an omission? Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) I never knew FFAR and Hydra were different. I'm not sure, in DCS for the F-5E, 2.75" seems to have been used to identify the Hydra (Mk66 motor) and FFAR perhaps the older Mk4/Mk40 motors or the difference between Mk66 Mod 2/3 and Mk66 Mod 4 but I haven't looked at DCS's data files to see if there's a real difference. AFAIK IRL earlier launchers (up to LAU-61B/A and -68C/A) could only be used with the older MK 4/MK 40 motors but there's nothing in the AV-8B tactical manual to suggest the USMC don't use FFAR Mk 66 Mod 2 i.e. the Hydra (with modern LAU-61C/A and -68D/A launchers). As can be seen there is a discrepancy between what is available for triple mounted pods (i.e. 3x LAU-68 ) and single pods (i.e. 1x LAU-68/LAU-3). Edit: Checking a 350 KTAS AV8B @ 3600 ft MSL in Tacview: • LAU-68 *1 = FFAR Mk1 HE reach ~1230 KTAS @ 3600 ft = approx 2100 fps which is close to the Mk 40 Motor, 1965 fps burnout velocity • LAU-68 *3 = HYDRA 70 M151 reach ~1800 KTAS @ 3600 ft = approx 3000 fps which is higher than the Mk 66 Motor Mod 1, 2425 fps burnout velocity but may be due to the launch platform's 350 KTAS or different motor specs. Clearly there is a difference between FFAR and 2.75" rocket performance in DCS Note: The US Army expected Mk 40 Rocket Motor training inventories to be expired by 1993, IMHO it seems unlikely the USMC was still using them on the AV-8B N/A modelled in DCS (but not impossible as the AV-8B N/A was first delivered to the USMC in September 1989). Edited June 27, 2018 by Ramsay Additional 2.75 and FFAR rocket testing in 2.5.2.18736 i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Hydras can only be carried with LAU-68 pods (7 rockets) ... Although true for smoke, illumination, etc. it's not true for HE, HEAT or WP warheads. ITERs (BRU-42/A) HE, HEAT and WP Hydras can only be loaded if the LAU-68's are on triple mounts i.e. 3x7 = 21 rockets If the LAU-68 is mounted singularly (BRU-36) it can only be loaded with the older FFAR HE, HEAT and WP rockets in DCS. AFAIK this is not a RL limitation. i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX4070 12GB, 1+2TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 4+1TB SSD, Winwing Orion 2 F-15EX Throttle + F-16EX Stick, TPR Pedals, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jowen G. Bruère-Dawson Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Ramsay Yeah, just noticed that, on the inner station, you can load M151 but only with triple mounts, on the middle stations you can't load M151 even on Lau-68. I think it's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_1stVFW Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I just thought about this topic today and did some testing. I can tell the OP at least for the Mk5 vs Mk 151 rocket there is a NIGHT AND DAY difference in accuracy. The Mk151 blows the older FFAR Mk5 out of the water. So there is that. Aurora R7 || i7K 8700K || 2TB 7200RPM SATA 6Gb/s || 2TB M.2 PCIe x4 SSD || GTX 1080 Ti with 11GB GDDR5X || Windows 10 Pro || 32GB Dual Channel DDR4 at 2667MHz || Virpil Warbird Base || Virpil T-50 Stick || Virpil MT-50 Throttle || Thrustmaster TPR Pedals || Oculus Rift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsvinet Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Is there any update to this, or atleast some answers to the discrepancy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Of course not. I also posted a bug related to this in the bug section, but no response there either. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=DECOY= Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Zues is aware of this thread Water cooled i9-9900K | Maximus Code XI MB | RTX3090 | 64GB | HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsvinet Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Zues is aware of this thread Thanks for letting us know, Decoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neovo903 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Is there any update on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Of course not. I also posted a bug related to this in the bug section, but no response there either. Can you post the link to the original report, so I add it to the community bug tracker. Thanks Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Guess that's the one: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=243813 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidtfire Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 On the other hand, I always pack the older FFAR rockets. Two reasons. One, you can set the salvo to empty the entire tube faster :) Two, the pod has it’s front cover modeled. Still very much seen on modern Harriers. Flying around with Hydra pods without a front cover looks ugly (and should maybe create more drag aswell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Added them to the bug tracker https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gYpmYD4VVaTn1YkHd_K7CJxOysoOqdN-K5oZs_anX7c/edit?usp=sharing Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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