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    Originally posted by MKev View Post
    what do you mean with strakes?

    The slots in the wing gloves I used my amazing art skills to circle in this post https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=193

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      Originally posted by TLTeo View Post
      The slots in the wing gloves I used my amazing art skills to circle in this post https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=193
      Ah now I understand. I hope RAZBAM is sure on this. There was somebody mentioning that this new wings with "dog-tooth" have been released with the MiG-23MLA already. Can't be sure what is right or wrong. I hope RAZBAM has the correct papers
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        As I posted earlier, the big dogtooth wings were a thing since much earlier variants and should not be confused with the small strakes on the wing gloves. Razbam's wings are correct for the MLA they are modelling.

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          Originally posted by HWasp View Post
          F-14 vs MiG-23 1v1 is not a fair fight, the F-14 is clearly better in both BVR and WVR, there is nothing to argue...


          BUT


          Wiki says that an F-14A in 1977 cost 19.2 million USD, while the MiG-23 between 3.6 to 6.6 million


          If that is accurate, then you could buy 3-5 MiG-23 for the price of 1 F-14A, and production numbers reflect that.


          Based on that I'd say that a 1v4 scenario should be considered when talking about MiG-23 vs US 4th gens like the F-14 or the F-15
          the f-14 is clearly better in bvr and.... (the rest is propaganda... or a wish or an assumption or... whatever other thing than real)
          according to NASA te mig-23 is more agile than the f-14

          (sourse: NASA technical memorandum 86352 - some fighter aircraft trends)
          Attached Files

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            Originally posted by nsf_zx View Post
            the f-14 is clearly better in bvr and.... (the rest is propaganda... or a wish or an assumption or... whatever other thing than real)
            according to NASA te mig-23 is more agile than the f-14

            (sourse: NASA technical memorandum 86352 - some fighter aircraft trends)
            Off topic but:
            I would treat that diagram with caution, as explained in the file the agility value is just a theoretical number derrived by division of two physical/aerodynamic values.It does not translate into an absolute statement of the aircraft maneuverability, which is something else.
            They arrive at the value by dividing T/W by combat wing loading.The F-14 has a significant lift generating body, but that is not counted as wing area so its not factured in.Also, at the time of the Nasa report there was only the F-14A,
            currently in the sim we have -B model with newer engines, providing a sizable thrust increase ,further raising T/W.


            According to that Diagramm , both the F-104 Starfighter(notorious for lack of turnfight ability) as well as the F-4 both come out on top of the F-14.
            Does that mean you would really rather go into a knife fight with these two much older aircraft instead of the newer , more maneuverable and more capable F-14? Well I wouldn’t.



            Still doesn’t mean that the Mig-23 is unable to out-accelerate nearly everything.

            Regards,

            Snappy
            Last edited 09-02-2020, 07:22 AM.

            Comment


              Originally posted by nsf_zx View Post
              the f-14 is clearly better in bvr and.... (the rest is propaganda... or a wish or an assumption or... whatever other thing than real)
              according to NASA te mig-23 is more agile than the f-14

              (sourse: NASA technical memorandum 86352 - some fighter aircraft trends)
              Hermano, not everyone agrees... and also it isn't as simple as that.

              Start here at post #81, it does have pertinent info about F-14 vs MiG-23 regarding Air Combat Maneuvering.

              https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=140030&page=9
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                Sure, but I hope there will be someone online after release to show him the 23 is not “garbage”

                Just wait, instead of “R-27ET to the face” being the online motto it will be “R-24T to the face”

                Comment


                  Originally posted by AeriaGloria View Post
                  Sure, but I hope there will be someone online after release to show him the 23 is not “garbage”

                  Just wait, instead of “R-27ET to the face” being the online motto it will be “R-24T to the face”
                  I would not call it "garbage" either.

                  And besides, the MiG-23 did show its "claws" in combat, for instance with a SAAF Mirage F1 kill...

                  http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticPiercy2-e.html
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                    From what I know the R-24 should have similar capabilities to the AIM-7F, so even by Western standards the missile isn't bad. The Flogger will certainly require different tactics to what most 4th gen pilots are used to. Even the Soviet MLD user's manual suggested slash and dash style attacks as opposed to dogfighting, particularly when facing F-15s.
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                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGE0N7O_HT8
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                        Choosing what combo of R-24s to take is going to be painful

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by AeriaGloria View Post
                          Choosing what combo of R-24s to take is going to be painful
                          With only two wing glove pylons and two variants of the R-24 available that choice is going to be rather limited... Depending on how useful the TP-26Sh IRST turns out to be, I might be inclined to try out an all-IR loadout.
                          DCS module wishlist: F-104S ASA-M Starfighter / F-111F Aardvark / F-4E Phantom II / J 35F2 Draken / J-7M AirGuard / Kfir C.2 / MiG-17F / MiG-21 Bison / Mirage F1 / Su-17M4 / Su-24M / Yak-9U

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by nsf_zx View Post
                            according to NASA te mig-23 is more agile than the f-14
                            According to Jeff Guinn even an F-111 beats a MiG-23 close-in (not specified which version - might not have been an MLA/MLD):
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                              MF or S most certainly. Much heavier and much less lift than ML.
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                                Originally posted by AeriaGloria View Post
                                Choosing what combo of R-24s to take is going to be painful
                                How so? You have three options:
                                1. R-24R + R-24R
                                2. R-24R + R-24T
                                3. R-24T + R-24T


                                It is not so painful thing to do, like with previous variant that had space only for two control boxes inside so you could only carry same seeker missiles without mixing them.
                                At least you can have four R-60 missiles with those, so when you get to close, you have excellent potential to get them down with agile missiles when you zoom through them.
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                                  Originally posted by Кош View Post
                                  MF or S most certainly. Much heavier and much less lift than ML.
                                  Exactly, all models from the ML onwards were substantially lighter than the earlier variants and had more thrust. I'm not so sure about lift, as most of the changes from the M to the ML were internal (except the dorsal fin of course).
                                  DCS module wishlist: F-104S ASA-M Starfighter / F-111F Aardvark / F-4E Phantom II / J 35F2 Draken / J-7M AirGuard / Kfir C.2 / MiG-17F / MiG-21 Bison / Mirage F1 / Su-17M4 / Su-24M / Yak-9U

                                  Comment


                                    Evolution is pretty serious:
                                    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/figh...s/mig23s-1.gif
                                    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/figh.../mig23mf-1.gif
                                    http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/figh.../mig23ml-2.gif
                                    More wing area and more mechanization with each version. Also notice how ML is shorter.
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                                      Originally posted by Top Jockey View Post
                                      I would not call it "garbage" either.

                                      And besides, the MiG-23 did show its "claws" in combat, for instance with a SAAF Mirage F1 kill...

                                      http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticPiercy2-e.html

                                      - and two confirmed and two probable F-14 kills
                                      - and several numbers of (didn´t have the exact number per type right now) F-4s, F-5s, F-16s
                                      - it also has claims of F-15 kills

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Top Jockey View Post
                                        I would not call it "garbage" either.

                                        And besides, the MiG-23 did show its "claws" in combat, for instance with a SAAF Mirage F1 kill...

                                        http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticPiercy2-e.html
                                        Personal description from the Cuban pilot that pulled the trigger:

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                                        Comment


                                          very interesting documenatry!

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