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DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

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    Originally posted by OneBlueSky View Post
    I'd wager that the Viggen is coming pretty quickly. The Tomcat though, I'd be pleasantly surprised if it's out before the end of next year given that they are developing an entire theater as well as carrier ops and a carrier for it.

    They've already said the Viggen is feature complete, and just has a few little things to clean up. They're offering it as a prize last I saw for the winners of the second round of MiG-21 vs. F-5 tournament. That doesn't mean release is imminent, it could be a long ways off for sure. But I'm betting it'll be pretty quick, and definitely before the end of this year.

    People seem to often make the silly mistake of thinking that every developer will or has to show off modules along the way and hype them before release. Nothing says that they can't do a short teaser a week out or even just drop it for release one weekend with the only previews coming out the day of release. The lack of previews and public hype couldn't possibly have less to do with when a module is coming out.

    (People also seem to forget there are several legitimate reasons why a developer may not show an aircraft off or even be allowed to while it's in development.)
    Yes, they have to show off before release. It is required for marketing. All DCS modules have at least 6-12 months of preview screenshots before a release date. The F5 was shown off several times, and so were all other modules. However we did not get not even one screenshot of the Viggen.

    Also for me it looks like a clear confirmation that the f14 won't be out until december 2018. Proof is the AIM 54 developer update. Not one single word about the release date or actual screenshots of the cockpit. When a developer update completely dodges the most important question, which is "when is it out" then that is a clear indication of massive delays.

    It will take at least 8 months after the first screenshot of the Viggen for a release date even to be mentioned. Also they have to stay away from other module release dates, becaus I think ED does not want module releases close to each other so the sales do not interfere.

    The only thing that will be on time this year will be the spitfire (my guess second week of december) and the black sea and nevada maps unified in the same game.

    I have not the slightest doubt the LN modules will be great. But their release date estimates are phenomenally bad. And to be direct, it was sort of rude to drag us along with "3 modules around the corner in 2015". Was really frustrating to follow news releases

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      Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
      ...
      The only thing that will be on time this year will be the spitfire (my guess second week of december) and the black sea and nevada maps unified in the same game.


      I just gotta ask Spacehamster, why something as awfully specific as the second week of december for the spitfire prediction?
      Last edited by Skjold; 09-15-2016, 02:41 PM.

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        Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
        When a developer update completely dodges the most important question, which is "when is it out" then that is a clear indication of massive delays.
        Was thinking along the same lines...
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          Originally posted by Skjold View Post
          I just gotta ask Spacehamster, why something as awfully specific as the second week of december for the spitfire prediction?
          The BF109 came out the second week of december too If I remember correctly. I think it is marketing related to christmas shopping.

          Comment


            What for memez.
            Christmas 2015 formation of Viggens, 2 development updates with Viggens Cammo in the headline. Info that the last research trip is done, info that its mostly marketing material, missions and bugfixing to be done. Viggens as LNS title image on FB.

            Also this 8 months statement is utter rubbish. First sneak peek which deserves the name was 17.03.2016 for the gazelle, release was on 29.04.2016.

            I dont expect the Viggen just to be dropped off on a weekend newsletter. They said there will be tutorial Videos first. So I expect it to be 2-4 weeks or something like that. 8 Months between sneak peek and release on which planet are we living ?
            sigpic

            *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

            Comment


              Originally posted by microvax View Post
              What for memez.
              Christmas 2015 formation of Viggens, 2 development updates with Viggens Cammo in the headline. Info that the last research trip is done, info that its mostly marketing material, missions and bugfixing to be done. Viggens as LNS title image on FB.

              Also this 8 months statement is utter rubbish. First sneak peek which deserves the name was 17.03.2016 for the gazelle, release was on 29.04.2016.

              I dont expect the Viggen just to be dropped off on a weekend newsletter. They said there will be tutorial Videos first. So I expect it to be 2-4 weeks or something like that. 8 Months between sneak peek and release on which planet are we living ?
              I think you are wrong about the Gazelle. There was an interview on a sim website where they said at the end of October 2015 that it was almost complete and it might be released within weeks or even days.

              Comment


                Originally posted by AG-51_Razor View Post
                It might also have something to do with a map they are producing for that region.
                Likely not. Cobra has stated that the initial mission/training content for the Viggen will be Caucasus-based (IIRC he also directly stated something in line with the dedicated theatre being more far off in the future).

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
                  I think you are wrong about the Gazelle. There was an interview on a sim website where they said at the end of October 2015 that it was almost complete and it might be released within weeks or even days.
                  Show me any video material which is close to final stage of the gazelle before the date I called on their first sneak peek, the canyon race before you call me wrong.

                  Also there is a big difference. Poly pretty much gives live updates on development.
                  LNS does not do that at all. And I think both approaches have their appliances.

                  And calling the not mentioning of release dates a proof that f14 is going to be 2018/2019 is pretty spectacular as well. Why should one call release dates, why. There is no reason to.

                  What happens to games that call release dates ?

                  What happens to games which take their time to delay twice beyond release date [looking at witcher 3].
                  sigpic

                  *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

                  Comment


                    Maybe the recurring "cry" for release dates would be lessened if regular updates occurred that would deliver something satisfying, e.g., screenshots and video clips / animations.
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                      Originally posted by rrohde View Post
                      Maybe the recurring "cry" for release dates would be lessened if regular updates occurred that would deliver something satisfying, e.g., screenshots and video clips / animations.
                      There just was a sneak peak of the FM, recently there was status update from cobra.
                      DEVs are also become active and speak about details from time to time on this thread. I am just really getting some nasty diseases right now because some mod merged one of theese BS " I am 12 years old and cant wait" threads into our nice informative Viggen thread.

                      Why regular update when there is nothing worth updating about ?
                      Its not like with other games that you get something which you do not know. You know exactly what you are getting with the Viggen even the manuals are declassified.

                      If they do something special to simulate it, they tell us, that is something that is really worth and update but info about the Aircraft I mean what.

                      Phoenix update as well, CFD for missile performance estimation is pretty much a first in DCS afaik.
                      Well you can copy pasta an update "we are writing code and moving polygons" update every month people would still cry for release dates. Look at Razbam. They are steaming ahead pretty good AND give updates nearly biweekly on FB. Still people start threads with wild estimation roulette.

                      Since there are regular updates for Viggen and people cry and there are even regular updates for razbam in graphical form, people still cry, nope I think the crying will never Stop.

                      People want stuff that is fully working and they want it early. Doesnt work.
                      So I am god damn happy that LNS isnt running marketing machinery on full volume and just talks to the people who actually have interest in the Aircraft and give updates on how things are going to be.
                      sigpic

                      *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

                      Comment


                        Time for a reality check. The F14 was announced April 2015. They said second half of 2016. Which is now. And then they said 2 complete modules BEFORE F14. Nothing of these two has been shown.

                        And yes, getting stuff done on time and with great quality is something that works. A lot of games manage that. The problem with LN is great quality but with release estimates that might be half a decade off. Plus they suggested everything being just around the corner. If they would simply say "We ran into issues, won't show anything for 8 months." Then it would remove a lot of disappointment.
                        Their current estimate was "2 weeks" for the Viggen, on June 10th. A quarter of a year has passed since then. Not a single screenshot of that thing. And they kept repeating this. They say something, then the time they estimated passes by months and they do not mention or acknowledge the delay.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
                          Their current estimate was "2 weeks" for the Viggen
                          No, it most certainly was not. There is no date announced for the Viggen.

                          Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
                          they do not mention or acknowledge the delay.
                          Not true.

                          Amongst other things, you have a detailed paragraph related to the Viggen in this update:
                          https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171014
                          Last edited by Cobra847; 09-15-2016, 04:14 PM.
                          Nicholas Dackard

                          Founder & Lead Artist
                          Heatblur Simulations

                          https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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                            Done when its done in the mean time try the Mig-21 btw Cobra847, Like the lighting effect in cockpit.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Spacehamster View Post
                              Time for a reality check. The F14 was announced April 2015. They said second half of 2016. Which is now. And then they said 2 complete modules BEFORE F14. Nothing of these two has been shown.

                              And yes, getting stuff done on time and with great quality is something that works. A lot of games manage that. The problem with LN is great quality but with release estimates that might be half a decade off. Plus they suggested everything being just around the corner. If they would simply say "We ran into issues, won't show anything for 8 months." Then it would remove a lot of disappointment.
                              Their current estimate was "2 weeks" for the Viggen, on June 10th. A quarter of a year has passed since then. Not a single screenshot of that thing.
                              Time for a reality check, one of the core team members was down for an entire year due to health issues afaik. Also, ED announced strait of homuz for winter 2014. How do you think does development in an engine go which is that inconsistant. Calling release dates in DCS is pretty pointless honestly.

                              I didnt say its impossible, I just did meant to illustrate, the overall average quality for release date bound products is lower then non release date bound or delayed products.
                              Why disappointment ? There never was an official release date for the Viggen to my knowledge there where estimates.

                              I dunno if you know, 2 weeks is a meme here. 2 weeks means "when its ready".

                              No screenshot but several info from the devs. So I dunno what your problem is.
                              There has been info which shows they are far beyond screenshots. Most people dont get how development of software in general works. Best example of that was f18 update from ED. Tying systems into the cockpit is a quite late step in the process. People freaked out and estimated it to be years away because they don know better.

                              A screenshot of a fancy 3d model with fancy lighting is literally telling you nothing about overall state. Thus not getting one doesnt tell you anything either. I mean look at this. EF Typhoon renders in 2012. M2000C shiny pictures in game since 2015 and its getting to the point where systems actually start to work.

                              It wouldnt have been different if there was no screenshots for Typhoon.
                              Bo105, flying protoype in 2014.

                              There is little connection between releasing in dev material and module state.
                              Thus there is even less connection between not releasing and module state.


                              I agree that it probably wont be less then 3-4 weeks between start of the public release preparations aka marketing and the actual release. But judging module state by released or the non existance of released material simply doesnt work out as shown by my examples.
                              sigpic

                              *unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

                              Comment


                                And just a quick update for everyone:

                                We're still working on solving bugs and merging new artwork into our existing codebase.
                                Many of the items in the July update are being checked off-- but we're still a ways out.

                                A few odds and ends (features that were "missed" or set as future Todos) are also being taken care of.

                                It's important to us that the Viggen is a very complete release, so that we can minimize the post-release support timeframe and focus our resources on the F-14 and other, future aircraft.
                                That said though, due to the size and complexity of the project, in comparison to the MiG-21, it's going to be an all hands on deck situation.

                                I wouldn't expect more than a few weeks between announcement and release. That's the hope and plan, in any case!

                                Thanks for all of your support.
                                Nicholas Dackard

                                Founder & Lead Artist
                                Heatblur Simulations

                                https://www.facebook.com/heatblur/

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