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    #21
    Yes also known as "famous last words".

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      #22
      Originally posted by WinterH View Post
      ...I honestly would much prefer Deka to stick to the red side of things. We need way more of those, and they are the most obvious developer to do it.
      Agreed, I would also prefer more "red" jets.

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        #23
        If we're making wishlists, then I'll toss my vote in for the Finback.
        I love the Finback. I know the H and the F models are still in operation, but earlier variants would be just as welcome in my book.
        Last edited 05-13-2020, 11:53 PM.

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          #24
          Originally posted by uboats View Post
          not yet
          be patient
          Hi Deka? Any news? Have you guys decided yet? What beautiful module are you guys going to roll out of your garage?

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            #25
            Originally posted by J-20 View Post
            Hi Deka? Any news? Have you guys decided yet? What beautiful module are you guys going to roll out of your garage?
            Originally posted by carss View Post
            Imagine the timing if they announce this on JF-17 release. They are so close, only a couple main features left

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              #26
              A chopper would sit right with me.
              The Kamov designed CAIC Z-10 t or WZ-10 would put these fellas on the map.
              Last edited 09-26-2020, 01:04 AM.

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                #27
                Originally posted by Rogue Trooper View Post
                A chopper would sit right with me.
                The Kamov designed CAIC Z-10 t or WZ-10 would put these fellas on the map.
                Kamov designed? I see, you got that from another one of those british webpages. Go to Kamov and see if they can offer you any info on Z-10 at all.

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                  #28
                  Originally posted by J-20 View Post
                  Kamov designed? I see, you got that from another one of those british webpages. Go to Kamov and see if they can offer you any info on Z-10 at all.
                  According to Kamov https://web.archive.org/web/20140706...ack-helicopter

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                    #29
                    Originally posted by AeriaGloria View Post
                    I saw that too. That's not "according to Kamov". It's a US based media called AIN online.
                    And that news in webachieve, means deleted. Just like when brits Jane's deleted the comment about how J-10 is Lavi. They made a sensational claim to attract reader, but has no evidence to back it up. That's why they had to delete it.

                    As far as I know, China did benefit it from project 941, a project initiated by China in 1994 with the help of Russian Kamov (China paid them $3 million for that, mostly for their testing facility). But after the wooden model was tested in a wind tunnel in 1996 (see picture below).
                    Russia left the project and never involved again ever since. And Z-10 made its first flight in 29 April 2003. Through 1996 to 2003, Russia didn't tough a thing.

                    Last edited 09-27-2020, 12:35 AM.

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                      #30
                      It’s still live https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ack-helicopter

                      Reported elsewhere like Flight Global, and references an actual announcement from a real person who showed pictures of wind test models. Would be a pretty elaborate hoax

                      Im not saying it isn’t Chinese, I’m just seems to be pretty credible that the initial concept and design including verification by wind tunnel models was done by Kamov, and Harbin then actually turned that into a real helicopter and did all manufacturing design changes everything else. They paid Kamov for It, no harm in that, it’s still a very important milestone in indigenous Chinese attack helicopters

                      So I don’t think Rogue Trooper was necessarily technically wrong, and they definitely feel positive about such a helicopter, it would be very interesting to see how it stacks up to Ka-50 that has much more armor and if Z-10 is really more agile despite conventional rotor design. They definitely went for more of a Scout helicopter approach, I know they wanted Gazelles with HOT missiles and one point, it would almost be a modern filler of the gap between Ka-50/Mi-24 and Kiowa/Gazelle

                      But it has those MFDs, darn

                      EDIT: okay I see your edit. Yeah basic blue prints and verification then total hand over. Yeah some people might blow it up and belittle Harbin/PLA involvement, but they just misunderstand and conflate the early cooperation that did happen all those years before flight test
                      Last edited 09-26-2020, 10:10 AM.

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                        #31
                        All this off topic patriotic drama aside, I would love a large bomber or transport plane for a next module.

                        A dedicated ground attacker would also be nice.
                        Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H

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                          #32
                          Originally posted by Terrorban View Post
                          All this off topic patriotic drama aside, I would love a large bomber or transport plane for a next module.

                          A dedicated ground attacker would also be nice.
                          Who would want a transport?

                          Also, I don't think there was any patriotic drama.
                          Why would people call Z-10 a Russian design when they only did $3 million worth of testing work? After taking $3 million, they spend 2 years just to build a wooden model for testing, and all of a sudden that's a Russia design? What are they? Vitamin B6 deficient?
                          People trying to correct it is not a patriotic drama.

                          Just give you an idea how little $3 million is, the design project of Apache cost $11 billion. A single Apache's fly away price is $33 million.
                          Last edited 09-28-2020, 06:24 AM.
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                            #33
                            Originally posted by Viking 1-1 View Post
                            Is Deka fixed on Chinese and eastern Aircraft?

                            I would love to see a F4 Phantom, and I think Deka would be the guys able to do it right! Still not happy that the Mudhen went to Razbam...
                            F-4E has on progress officially by ED.

                            RAZBAM never a planned a F-4, get down the drama.

                            Deka has a Chinese team, they has intente build exclusive and associate national modules.

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                            Last edited 09-28-2020, 07:36 AM.
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                              #34
                              Originally posted by PLAAF View Post
                              Who would want a transport?

                              Also, I don't think there was any patriotic drama.
                              Why would people call Z-10 a Russian design when they only did $3 million worth of testing work? After taking $3 million, they spend 2 years just to build a wooden model for testing, and all of a sudden that's a Russia design? What are they? Vitamin B6 deficient?
                              People trying to correct it is not a patriotic drama.

                              Just give you an idea how little $3 million is, the design project of Apache cost $11 billion. A single Apache's fly away price is $33 million.
                              I would like to get one properly designed transport airframe. I suppose they wont sell too well. Shame really.

                              Furthermore, I will buy any helicopter made from China. I have seen some documentaries. They are quite capable machines.
                              Current Hangar : A-10C II ¦ AJS-37 ¦ A/V-8B ¦ F-14A/B ¦ F/A-18C ¦ FC3 ¦ JF-17 ¦ Ka-50 ¦ Mi-8 ¦ M2000-C ¦ SA342 ¦ UH-1H

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                                #35
                                Originally posted by J-20 View Post

                                Kamov designed? I see, you got that from another one of those british webpages. Go to Kamov and see if they can offer you any info on Z-10 at all.
                                yes.
                                The chinese wanted to produce a kamov attack chopper and Kamov being an intelligent company realised very quickly that the Chinese would simply take the first production run, reverse engineer it and manufacture it for them selves.
                                So they only agreed to design a new chopper for them under contract.

                                Only one of us is deluded.... I wonder which one?

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                                  #36


                                  Read the previous comments before reply. Kamov only did a $3 million worth of wind tunnel test job.

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                                    #37
                                    Wish it was the Z-10 Helo, since we will never have an apache anytime soon. Deka your our only hope ! Z-10 would be the closest and knowing it would be developed well and a great module from Deka

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                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by PLAAF View Post

                                      Who would want a transport?

                                      Also, I don't think there was any patriotic drama.
                                      Why would people call Z-10 a Russian design when they only did $3 million worth of testing work? After taking $3 million, they spend 2 years just to build a wooden model for testing, and all of a sudden that's a Russia design? What are they? Vitamin B6 deficient?
                                      People trying to correct it is not a patriotic drama.

                                      Just give you an idea how little $3 million is, the design project of Apache cost $11 billion. A single Apache's fly away price is $33 million.
                                      Again, paying attention to forum rule 1.2 :

                                      So, because the Russians spent less money, how does that now equates to: the original design not being theirs ?
                                      I'm not seeing how does one thing effects the other...

                                      Just pointing that it isn't as if one created a completely different and new aircraft and entirely by themselves.
                                      Several places throughout the web do state that: Kamov also was responsible for the Z-10 design.


                                      https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/chin...opter-variant/

                                      https://www.aerotime.aero/augustaspe...-service-today

                                      http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/z10.htm

                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAIC_Z-10
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                                        #39
                                        $3 million can design less than a toe on a helicopter. Beside, that $3 million was used for using Russian facility to test the design, not design itself.
                                        You source are questionable since non of them even mentioned where did they get their information. They have nothing but their own speculation and opinion.
                                        If Kamov had anything to do with Z-10, why didn't they make announcement themselves? Can you find statement released by Kamov themselves?
                                        Just like when Jane's speculated J-10 was based on Lavi, after people ask them for evidence, they can't provide (and Israel won't back them up neither). Eventually they had to delete that article from their website.

                                        You are clearly not here to debate, and just here to start fights.
                                        Blocking you now.
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                                          #40
                                          Doing wind tunnel testing out of the country isn't unheard of at all.
                                          The Avro Arrow was wind tunnel tested in the US a bit, that doesn't really make it an American design though.
                                          Its about the same as loaning or renting a calculator.

                                          Don't see the issue here

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