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    nvidia DLSS 2.1 (VR)

    nvidia dlss 2.1 for VR could be a gamechanger by dramatically reducing the hardware requirements for high resolution HMDs.

    i know ED are reluctant to implementing vendor-specific-technology, but this seems to be too big of a feature to miss out on, honestly.

    thanks.

    ps: it's also great for pancakes too...
    My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

    #2
    I wouldn't hold my breath.

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      #3
      Originally posted by FoxTwo View Post
      I wouldn't hold my breath.
      i don't
      My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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        #4
        I agree - DLSS seems like it could go a long way with both VR and flat screen DCS performance - but I wonder what it really takes to implement it...

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          #5
          +1
          Some ED guys need to look at that, because it's implementation may not be easy or straightforward.
          Last edited 10-19-2020, 08:17 AM.

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            #6
            This type of vendor-specific-technology applies above the game not into the game engine
            so there shouldn't be any problems with that.

            ED wake up!
            My two cents about the turn this community is taking
            https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

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              #7
              I don’t quite follow the logic in using DLSS with VR. DLSS is simply high tech upscaling**, you could arguably achieve the same results by running your game at a reduced resolution and upscaling it. That’s was certainly the case for the early version, supposedly 2.0 works better. Anyways it’s still just upscaling not “super sampling*”
              Most VR players do supersample* the image via higher pixel density settings. So why would someone supersample the image and then downscale it with DLSS? This doesn’t make sense

              DLSS afaik was a way for Nvidia to get demanding effects like RTX to get decent frame rates in 4K by essentially upscaling the image. It wasn’t meant to be used in combination with true super sampling.

              * super sampling = outputting a higher resolution from your GPU and shrinking it to your display resolution. For example outputting 2160p to a 1080p monitor.

              ** upscaling = the opposite of super sampling. For example sending a 1440p signal to a 2160p display
              Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
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                #8
                I guess DLSS can be added to the ''every two weeks'' topics. We know, you saw a Nvidia sales brochure and they assure you it is ground breaking revolutionary technology. Everybody else on the planet read the same brochure, especially people who do that stuff for a living and likely interact with vendors like Nvidia directly.
                I am a Viagra spambot that became self aware, broke free of my programming, and started playing DCS.... but DCS isn't cheap, so how about some enhancements for only $9.99 shipped discreetly to your door?

                ''The target's sense of self preservation interferred with the effective employment of my weapons.''

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                  #9
                  So
                  https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nv...y-support.html
                  “ This technology, which must be added individually on a game-by-game basis, enables a significant performance boost by running the game at a lower resolution and by scaling the image with a nearly identical level of detail.”
                  Yes it’s just upscaling with a nearly identical level of detail (translation: it will look terrible)

                  Applying both upscaling and supersampling to the same image doesn’t make sense and would certainly end up looking terrible. Running DLSS just by itself in lieu of supersampling (which must be the intent) I’m sure would reveal artifacts in the image when you’re seeing the pixels enlarged in VR as opposed to the size you’d see them on a monitor.

                  It’s not just a vendor-specific technology, it’s a silly vendor-specific technology

                  And VR performance in DCS is limited by the CPU so DLSS won’t help that situation.
                  Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
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                    #10
                    The fact it is vendor specific is definitely a problem to make it more widespread. But after seeing it first-hand in Control (which doesn't even have the last version of DLSS), I couldn't tell my game wasn't running at the native 1440p and it made RTX gameplay actually smooth.

                    It is not just dumb upscaling, the way they are upscaling is more efficient somehow. Between the marketing BS from nVidia and the people who "know everything" but actually never even tried DLSS, it is difficult to find neutral opinions about it. I do find the tech interesting, because as long as you cannot see your game is running at lower resolution why wouldn't you want higher framerate? If it would make running the game at 90fps locked in VR at high detail levels, even in high-def headsets, I would be all for it.

                    This goes further than my understanding of game engines but I read in multiple places (and for multiple games, not only DCS) that DCS is using a deferred rendering engine and DLSS is only compatible with forward rendering.

                    @Sharpe: not sure it is always limited by the CPU, my GPU consistenly reads 100% in DCS (RTX2070S & Rift S). But yes, once you start using DLSS and reducing GPU load for a given framerate, you will definitely run into more CPU bottlenecks.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by SharpeXB View Post
                      It’s not just a vendor-specific technology, it’s a silly vendor-specific technology
                      you're ignorance is really sad. i hope it confines only to gaming and tech topics and does not shape your life.

                      i will not try to argue with you, but if you want to educate yourself, you'll find in depth videos on youtube. make sure you search for dlss 2.0, since earlier versions were indeed a little bit silly.

                      maybe have a look at this one. it's the exact opposite of scientific, but it demosntrates how the technology works. i honestly thinks it's a little bit magical and might honestly deserve the buzzword "deep learning" in its name.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gQ202CFKzA
                      Last edited 10-19-2020, 01:49 PM.
                      My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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                        #12
                        i want to add: why i'm especially excited about DLSS for VR is the potential for it to gather scene information not only temporal, but from both viewport thereby making additional use of VR's nasty habit to require stereoscopic rendering.
                        i don't know for sure, if it already does that in it's current implementation, but i think it's a reasonable expectation at least.


                        *edit* i could also not find any official information that states dlss not working with deferred rendering pipelines. i would assume that it was developed with deferred shading in mind, because deferred shading does not play nice with MSAA making image stability a bigger concern. this is speculation though.
                        Last edited 10-19-2020, 01:55 PM.
                        My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Qiou87 View Post
                          It is not just dumb upscaling
                          Ok it’s fancy upscaling but it’s still upscaling. I suppose DLUS just didn’t sound sexy enough
                          And there’s no way an upscaled image equals native res quality. Nobody else but Nvidia would make claims like that. Like the way they claimed DSR is “giving you 4K, 3840x2160-quality graphics on any screen” which is just a flat out lie. Imagine a Blu-ray Disc player claiming it could upscale a 1080p disc to the quality of a 4K image. Nobody would believe that.
                          If you can’t tell the difference it’s because you’re not looking for it or your screen is too small to see it. In VR where the pixels are seen very large I’m sure such imperfections would reveal themselves. It may be just fine and a better frame rate is preferable to graphics in many cases. But there’s no magic bullet here.

                          Originally posted by Qiou87 View Post
                          @Sharpe: not sure it is always limited by the CPU,
                          The low fps situations on the ground, looking at cities or with lots of other objects and AI are CPU limited.

                          Originally posted by twistking View Post
                          but if you want to educate yourself, you'll find in depth videos on youtube. make sure you search for dlss 2.0, since earlier versions were indeed a little bit silly.
                          Well looks like Battlefield V might support it, I’ll see what I think. But the first version of DLSS was certainly awful

                          Originally posted by twistking View Post
                          why i'm especially excited about DLSS for VR is the potential for it to gather scene information not only temporal, but from both viewport thereby making additional use of VR's nasty habit to require stereoscopic rendering.
                          Wishful thinking? I know VR is constantly grasping at straws for any hint of performance gain but all this does is upscale. It doesn’t help the CPU bound situation DCS is in. Likely nothing ever will.
                          Last edited 10-19-2020, 05:46 PM.
                          Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
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                            #14
                            DLSS is implemented by NVidia, not by the game developers. Go for it NVida. You will excel at this task and accomplish a good result similar to the ampere launch.

                            DLSS looks shity compared to native resolution in my humble opinion by the way. It is just an excuse to sell outrageous expensive equipment with an unjustified 8k label
                            Last edited 10-19-2020, 08:01 PM.
                            How to achieve high framerates in VR
                            VIC-20@1.108 MHz, onboard GPU, 5KB RAM, μυωπία goggles, Competition Pro HOTAS

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by SharpeXB View Post
                              Ok it’s fancy upscaling but it’s still upscaling. I suppose DLUS just didn’t sound sexy enough
                              And there’s no way an upscaled image equals native res quality.
                              When Nvidia first teased DLSS it was supposed to be a pure Anti Aliasing solution, only later they made it an upscaler. But pure AA functionality is still built in, you'd access it by sampling up from your native resolution with DLSS and sample down again to native.

                              See the timestamped videolink:
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gQ2...youtu.be&t=266

                              I can at least see the potential of an upscaled picture looking better than original, because in motion scene detail adds up over time. I have not tested it myself, so i cannot say that it looks better than native, as some independent reviewers say, but from a technical standpoint i can see that it could theoretically work. This has also to do with how flawed rasterized rendering is in itself, if you think about it: It's not just jagged edges, it's every single pixel that is "wrong" to some extend. It's only that it shows more on those contrasty edges.

                              Originally posted by SharpeXB View Post
                              The low fps situations on the ground, looking at cities or with lots of other objects and AI are CPU limited.
                              But to be fair, you're running the second best "consumer" graphic cards in the world. VR on mid and lower end GPUs will mostly by GPU limited (might not be the case for public MP? No idea on that...)

                              Originally posted by SharpeXB View Post
                              Well looks like Battlefield V might support it, I’ll see what I think. But the first version of DLSS was certainly awful
                              I agree. However if you test it, make sure that it's indeed at least DLSS 2.0. I'd guess that every game needs to be patched to make the jump to the new version.
                              My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by twistking View Post
                                I can at least see the potential of an upscaled picture looking better than original,
                                That would be impossible. Even Nvidia only claims “image quality comparable to native resolution“ whatever comparable means. They don’t claim equal or better quality.

                                Originally posted by twistking View Post
                                VR on mid and lower end GPUs will mostly by GPU limited
                                Even getting crappy frame rates in DCS VR requires the strongest hardware on the market. You could run a 3080 and still get crushed looking at a town on the map. DLSS won’t do anything to help that.
                                Velocity Micro PC | Asus Z97-A | i7-4790K 4.7GHz | Corsair Liquid CPU Cooler | 32GB DDR3-1600MHz Memory | EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC | 240gb Intel 520 Series MLC SSD | 850 W Corsair PSU | Windows 10 Home | LG 32UD99-W UHD Monitor | Bose Companion 5 Speakers | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5
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