Jarlerus Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 When the 3D pilot body is active, it sometimes blocks some switches from view, so they can't be interacted with. I propose an option where the arms of the pilot, or whole body, becomes automatically invisible when the mouse pointer is active. 2 Jarl at YouTube DCS Service Span and Wishlist Spreadsheet Forum post for discussion of above spreadsheet Retro Electro Playlist on Spotify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I would go on a little further and ask for a simple animation of the arm to take a hand from the throttle or stick and raise it just a bit - better visually and more immersive, even if just instant change of position for a second. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I can imagine that going "invisible" would be a jarring experience every time the player grabs or bumps the mouse. Maybe something like a 2 second fade to 50% opacity would be better. DCS VoiceAttack Profiles | My Mods and Utilities on ED User Files | DiCE: DCS Integrated Countermeasure Editor DCS Update Witching Utility | DCS-ExportScripts for Stream Deck Community Github Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I just have a "show/hide pilot body" hotas binding . Simple . Effective . No waiting on ED , and no additional cpu load . 1 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 I find seeing a pilot body to be really odd. Typically flight sims never had this. In fact I think DCS is the only one. Usually it’s the Arcade games which have a body. Of course because it hides the controls and such but in an Arcade game those aren’t used. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I find seeing a pilot body to be really odd. Typically flight sims never had this. In fact I think DCS is the only one. Usually it’s the Arcade games which have a body. Of course because it hides the controls and such but in an Arcade game those aren’t used. Pilot body is much more immersive in VR . Not so much in pancake . 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 I find seeing a pilot body to be really odd. Typically flight sims never had this. In fact I think DCS is the only one. Usually it’s the Arcade games which have a body. Of course because it hides the controls and such but in an Arcade game those aren’t used. Sounds like you're so long in sim world that you forgot what it is for ;) Don't you find odd that you see your hands holding guns in FPS? Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qiou87 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Pilot body is much more immersive in VR . Not so much in pancake . Yet I don't know how to fly with it (in VR) because it always hides switches on the consoles. Same for the stick actually, I have both of them off in VR. To each his own. I would actually welcome such an option. Especially for startup procedure, since for the rest of the flight I mostly use MFDs and HOTAS controls. But since I turn it off for the startup, I never actually bother to turn it back on. Always makes me sad when I see how much work goes into the making of such a detailed model. Please find a way to make it more user friendly and stop blocking the consoles from view... AMD R7 5800X3D | 64GB DDR4 3200MHz | RTX 4080S 16GB | Varjo Aero | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk3 + STECS + pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 As one of the stronger "VR pilot body is a must have for immersion" supporters (heck, I think I should be made leader of this movement! :P), I can only support the OP's wish. Anything that would help improve the current VR pilot body, so that at some point it is a must have for everyone at day 1 EA release, gets my full support. The lack of a pilot body and seeing those empty void cockpits (especially the rudder pedal area), is pretty much the reason why I stopped flying the Harrier, Viper and Tomcat.. and I'll probably lay off the A-10C II as well, soon.. It just looks so silly and fake in VR.. System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Sounds like you're so long in sim world that you forgot what it is for ;) Don't you find odd that you see your hands holding guns in FPS? No of course it’s not odd in an FPS game nor other first person sims such as racing. But in flight sims you operate the cockpit and the body just gets in the way of that or seeing instruments etc. So typically these games haven’t had a body. I can’t think of any other flight sim with one. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 No of course it’s not odd in an FPS game nor other first person sims such as racing. But in flight sims you operate the cockpit and the body just gets in the way of that or seeing instruments etc. So typically these games haven’t had a body. I can’t think of any other flight sim with one. Hence this thread :thumbup: Body is optional, there's usually the button to remove it instantly, I just can't wait for the times when I see my own hand rendered moving, switching or making shadow in the cockpit. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 No of course it’s not odd in an FPS game nor other first person sims such as racing. But in flight sims you operate the cockpit and the body just gets in the way of that or seeing instruments etc. So typically these games haven’t had a body. I can’t think of any other flight sim with one. In real life your body (arms/shoulders) also block most of the direct view of the side panels. At least for the Viper I can confirm that from personal experience. Hence they develop cockpit layouts in such an ergonomic way to minimize the need of touching the side panel switches during flight. Is it easy to operate all the cockpit switches without a pilot body in the way? Certainly Is it realistic to operate all the cockpit switches without a pilot body in the way? Not really no Can the current pilot body be improved? Of course (whole point of this thread) System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team SL PAK Posted October 23, 2020 ED Team Share Posted October 23, 2020 Not the entire body becomes transparent, but the area around the cursor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 For the body to be really feasible in a flight sim it would have to move around corresponding to your actions. In a racing sim it simply has to turn the wheel and operate the shifter. But there’s no clickable controls or instruments for it to block. Same with an FPS game. Flight sims have always represented a difficulty in showing the body which is why they never have. And it’s become the norm. Even in new graphically elaborate flight sims there’s no body. Sure it could be made to animate with VR gloves or something but for now that’s just a fantasy. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 For the body to be really feasible in a flight sim it would have to move around corresponding to your actions. In a racing sim it simply has to turn the wheel and operate the shifter. But there’s no clickable controls or instruments for it to block. Same with an FPS game. Flight sims have always represented a difficulty in showing the body which is why they never have. And it’s become the norm. Even in new graphically elaborate flight sims there’s no body. Sure it could be made to animate with VR gloves or something but for now that’s just a fantasy. I'm so happy that DCS is trying to break that norm and set a new standard. The current pilot body is a good start, to get to that new standard. Saying "it has never been done before, so why try to change and improve it", is quite a poor argument imo. Iirc, I read that RAZBAM is creating a pilot body that also generates shadows that follow the players head movement. Imagine being able to cast shadow over the mfd's with your head, to increase readability. System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Iirc, I read that RAZBAM is creating a pilot body that also generates shadows that follow the players head movement. Imagine being able to cast shadow over the mfd's with your head, to increase readability. On that sidenote, I can't wait for the ability to block sunlight on the MFD or in your face with your hand in VR or with a keybind on flatscreen. Maybe one day! DCS VoiceAttack Profiles | My Mods and Utilities on ED User Files | DiCE: DCS Integrated Countermeasure Editor DCS Update Witching Utility | DCS-ExportScripts for Stream Deck Community Github Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On that sidenote, I can't wait for the ability to block sunlight on the MFD or in your face with your hand in VR or with a keybind on flatscreen. Maybe one day! You can block the sun with part of your canopy frame or your monitor edge. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Saying "it has never been done before, so why try to change and improve it", is quite a poor argument imo. The reasons it isn’t done are pretty logical. The solutions here like VR gloves and animated arms are pretty much a fantasy. Also wouldn’t it be not immersive to see a flashlight-like hole appear in your body around the mouse cursor? If I were a VR player I’d want ED working on performance issues rather than this, which would probable just make performance worse due to rendering transparency. An easy solution if you like to see the body is just assign a mouse button (on a gaming mouse with extra buttons) to turn it on and off. When you reach for a control that’s blocked just do that. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 The reasons it isn’t done are pretty logical. The solutions here like VR gloves and animated arms are pretty much a fantasy. Also wouldn’t it be not immersive to see a flashlight-like hole appear in your body around the mouse cursor? If I were a VR player I’d want ED working on performance issues rather than this, which would probable just make performance worse due to rendering transparency. An easy solution if you like to see the body is just assign a mouse button (on a gaming mouse with extra buttons) to turn it on and off. When you reach for a control that’s blocked just do that. It's not a fantasy. It's very much programable and not at all cpu heavy. It's a matter of time to see it more and more advanced. Also I don't know where does it come from that pilot body is for VR only. I hate seeing empty seat on a monitor too. There's no point discussing it with you since you don't like or use the feature anyway. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomTOTEN Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 As a "pancake" user, the topic of a pilot body just seems like a bottomless pit of demands. It must look good, it must be animated, it must not block switches, it must follow hand held controllers, it must be partially transparent, it must be modified with patches/uniforms, it should be diverse in genders and ethnicity, perhaps with user customization options. Jeez... It'll do all those things and I'll probably still turn it off... no thanks. I can see why this isn't a popular development path for flight sims. Not saying you guys shouldn't have your neat feature, but look all the problems it makes vs how easy the solution is... How about this... a "mask" feature like the current HMD's have, but in reverse. Within a certain angle of the aircraft waterline, the body is visible. You can look all directions up and to the side, but when your head position tilts a certain angle down or greater (you intend to interact with switches, not just instruments) the pilot body blanks. When you look back up it reappears. Or it can be tied to cursor position, i.e. body blanks when cursor overlaps the boundaries of a cockpit side panel. I only use in cockpit body models for multi-crew aircraft like the UH-1H and Mi-8MTV2, and only for those seats that I'm not occupying. That's a nice feature BTW. But I really wouldn't be bothered by having the cockpit completely empty, it is in every other sim I fly:joystick: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 But I really wouldn't be bothered by having the cockpit completely empty, it is in every other sim I fly:joystick: One of the main reasons, I hardly ever fly other sims. (Main reason being the lack of proper VR support and clickable cockpit) But as said... it seems pointless to discuss this wish here. Some like it, some hate it... ok Remember, this is a wish thread, I'm sure everyone here, including the OP, don't expect this or any other pilot body improvement to be implemented within 2 weeks :P One can dream/wish though... System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 It's not a fantasy. It's very much programable and not at all cpu heavy. It's a matter of time to see it more and more advanced. Also I don't know where does it come from that pilot body is for VR only. I hate seeing empty seat on a monitor too. There's no point discussing it with you since you don't like or use the feature anyway. I read that transparency is expensive since it basically involves dual rendering which already is a hit on 3D to begin with. Hey I may try the body, they’re better done now than they were before and that's another issue. The pilot body was just badly done like in the P-51 it looked like a rag doll stick man. But if I find myself if heavy task situations switching it on and off in the midst of the action forget it, I’d just leave it off. I think most players just leave it off. Agree totally, a “bottomless pit of demands” for a feature most players will just switch off topic of a pilot body just seems like a bottomless pit of demands. It must look good, it must be animated, it must not block switches, it must follow hand held controllers, it must be partially transparent, it must be modified with patches/uniforms, it should be diverse in genders and ethnicity, perhaps with user customization options. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I think most players just leave it off. You might be right.. Then again, most people didn't take the jump to VR yet. Those that fly pancake probably have their fov set in such way that they don't even see the rudder pedals move. Pretty sure when I still flew on a monitor (A-10C), I usually zoomed in so that the mfd's were in the left and right bottom corners of my screen. Never bothered about a pilot body then. In VR, I constantly see the rudder pedals, and without legs there to operate them, the whole thing looks really fake and strange. Whoopsy... I think I went a bit off topic, in an attempt to defend why I (and many more) think the pilot body is a must have.. sorry for that... System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharpeXB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Those that fly pancake probably have their fov set in such way that they don't even see the rudder pedals move. You wouldn’t see your rudder pedals IRL either. I’m usually not paying attention to this sort of this in a flight sim. The body is actually a distraction especially since you’d have to turn it on and off constantly. And I wouldn’t prefer ED to spend so much effort catering to VR as it’s a fad which will likely die out anyways. I can’t imagine there are too many VR players here since the performance is so terrible. i9-13900K @ 6.2GHz oc | ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z790 HERO | 64GB DDR5 5600MHz | iCUE H150i Liquid CPU Cooler | 24GB GeForce RTX 4090 | Windows 11 Home | 2TB Samsung 980 PRO NVMe | Corsair RM1000x | LG 48GQ900-B 4K OLED Monitor | CH Fighterstick | Ch Pro Throttle | CH Pro Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirrah Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 With respect, you tried to make your point, I tried to make mine. It's clear we will never agree on this matter... Let's stop wasting internet space and leave this thread, so that others can comment on the OP's wish System specs: i7-8700K @stock speed - GTX 1080TI @ stock speed - AsRock Extreme4 Z370 - 32GB DDR4 @3GHz- 500GB SSD - 2TB nvme - 650W PSU HP Reverb G1 v2 - Saitek Pro pedals - TM Warthog HOTAS - TM F/A-18 Grip - TM Cougar HOTAS (NN-Dan mod) & (throttle standalone mod) - VIRPIL VPC Rotor TCS Plus with ALPHA-L grip - Pointctrl & aux banks <-- must have for VR users!! - Andre's SimShaker Jetpad - Fully adjustable DIY playseat - VA+VAICOM ~ That nuke might not have been the best of ideas, Sir... the enemy is furious ~ GUMMBAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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