Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[RESOLVED]Incorrect safety maneuver time for R-27ET

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    [RESOLVED]Incorrect safety maneuver time for R-27ET

    When launching a R-27 it will perform a "safety maneuver", which is not maneuvering for a certain time that depends on the type of launcher:
    Originally posted by Chizh View Post
    Yes, 0.4 sec delay use with APU (rail launcher) launch for safety maneuver.
    With AKU launch (catapult launcher) the safety time is bigger = 1.0...1.5 seconds.
    We have no difference for launching R-27ER missiles with a rail or ejecting. This is a limitation of the old missile system. We will redo this.
    R-27ET can only be launched from the APU-470 rail launcher. So the missile should have a low safety time of 0.4 seconds. But in DCS the missile has a long delay of 1 to 1.5 seconds before it starts maneuvering.
    R-27T on the other hand has the correct short safety maneuver time.

    The limitation of the old missile system does not apply for the R-27ET, because it can not be launched from APU and AKU launchers, only from APU launchers. So the long safety maneuver for the R-27ET is wrong. It should be corrected to 0.4 second (the same value that the R-27T already has in DCS).

    This should be a rather simple fix.

    Thank you!

    #2
    Here is a short trackfile showing the issue.

    A R-27ET and then a R-27T get fired on a target to the right of the aircraft.

    In the trackfile you can see that the R-27ET takes much longer before it starts maneuvering after launch than the R-27T.

    This is incorrect. Both missiles should have the same 0.4 seconds delay before maneuvering.
    The R-27ET in DCS has the longer safety maneuver time of a missile launched from a catapult launcher, which is wrong.

    A fix would be very appreciated!
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      R-27ET still has the wrong safety maneuver time.

      R-27ET can ONLY be fired from the rail type launcher, which means it will ALWAYS have the short 0.4 s safety maneuver time.

      Please correct the safety maneuver time for the R-27ET from >1 s to 0.4 s (same value as R-27T).

      Comment


        #4
        MiG-29 manual about launching R-27R1:



        MiG-29 only carries rail launchers, never catapult launchers, so the safety maneuver time for any R-27 launched from the MiG-29 is always 0.4 s.

        As R-27T/ET can only be launched from the rail launcher on both the MiG-29 and the Su-27/33, they will always have the safety maneuver time of 0.4 s.

        In the missiles_data.lua, this value is currently chosen for the R-27ET:
        Code:
        1.0, -- âðåìÿ çàäåðæêè âêëþ÷åíèÿ óïðàâëåíèÿ (ìàíåâð îòëåòà, áåçîïàñíîñòè), ñåê
        This is incorrect and needs to be set to 0.4

        Comment


          #5
          Why is this being ignored?

          It is a simple fix, and even confirmed by Chizh that it should be 0.4 s.

          Comment


            #6
            Because ED has decided that DCS is a NATO only simulator.

            I remember a bug with the MiG-29 RWR that made it invisible for an entire year (making the Fulcrum useless). Turns out that exactly what i thought happened - they had it fixed for months, but only implemented it with the MiG-29 FM update, to maximize profits.

            It is possible that ED has abandoned the russian missiles for their "brainmelting" disappointment of upcoming module, probably some useless 80s MiG-29 variant. Why should they fix anything now, when they can generate way more hype by waiting for another year.

            Though i wonder how many redfor pilots will be left to enjoy the fixes then. Im seeing the majority of people from the Su-27/MiG-29 community move to other games like IL-2 and World of Warships/War Thunder, the developers of which maintain their games environment properly. These games are also pushing into the modern era more and more, so at the current rate, we may soon see the day when ED will not be able to get these people back, regardless of what they do.
            Last edited 10-21-2020, 12:03 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Even when I remove all the sarcasm, I can't understand what you're asking for.
              Originally posted by Max1mus View Post
              I remember a bug with the MiG-29 RWR that made it invisible for an entire year - ED had it fixed - but only implemented it with the MiG-29 FM update
              I'd like to help by reproducing your issue and make a video out of it. Can you please simply describe what you see ingame that is not right? Something like: "When I'm flying [model of aircraft] in [solo / multiplayer], [this] happens".
              Accurate DCS 2.5 Caucasus map - v1.0

              Comment


                #8
                That bug has been fixed (tho it has reappeared once since them and again has been fixed), I dont think thats the point he was making. The bugs he is referring to are the overall poor modeling of the Russian missiles, specifically the R-27 series (this is multi-faceted, and includes the need of the new FM, fully CFDd aerodynamics, fixing of the chaff bug, etc).
                Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?
                HP Z400 Workstation
                Intel Xeon W3680(i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 12 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-...J-QUX5M7Dh1pGg
                sigpic
                The Alamo Squadron is looking for dedicated Air-to-Air focused pilots
                For more detailed recruiting information, see our forums.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thank you.
                  Accurate DCS 2.5 Caucasus map - v1.0

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm not a missile expert, but I've just tested the firing of an R27ET from a Su-27 in DCS. In the video below, I turn the nav lights on as I start pushing the Fire button.

                    The missile was fired approximately 0.53 seconds after I started pushing the button, which would mean the R-27ET safety maneuver time is far less than 1 second, and pretty close to 0.4 seconds. Am I wrong of has it been fixed?

                    Accurate DCS 2.5 Caucasus map - v1.0

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I was taking this bug into context with EDs complete disregard of non-NATO equipment in DCS. We arent getting any modern units or missiles, even AI, while the blue side and hoggit make one post, and get everything they ask for.

                      We cant even get a simple bug fixed that requires nothing but a change of a single line in a .lua, as pointed out above. Thats how little ED cares about the red side.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Flappie View Post
                        I'm not a missile expert, but I've just tested the firing of an R27ET from a Su-27 in DCS. In the video below, I turn the nav lights on as I start pushing the Fire button.

                        The missile was fired approximately 0.53 seconds after I started pushing the button, which would mean the R-27ET safety maneuver time is far less than 1 second, and pretty close to 0.4 seconds. Am I wrong of has it been fixed?

                        I believe you are mistaken, the bug is not the delay it between pushing the button and getting a launch

                        It is that right after the missile is launched on a target it stays on a linear path longer than it should
                        In game that means it flies one to one second and a half in the safe linear mode before homing into the target, when it should only do this for .4 seconds before it maneuvers for its bandit, in accordance with the Su-27SK manual

                        Comment


                          #13
                          That's not the safety time Flappie. The safety time is the time from when the missile comes off the rail till it fuzes and starts manuevering
                          Eagle Enthusiast, Fresco Fan. Patiently waiting for the F-15E. Clicky F-15C when?
                          HP Z400 Workstation
                          Intel Xeon W3680(i7-980X) OC'd to 4.0 GHz, EVGA GTX 1060 6GB SSC Gaming, 12 GB DDR3 RAM, 500GB Crucial MX500 SSD. Thrustmaster T16000M FCS HOTAS, DIY opentrack head-tracking. I upload DCS videos here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0-...J-QUX5M7Dh1pGg
                          sigpic
                          The Alamo Squadron is looking for dedicated Air-to-Air focused pilots
                          For more detailed recruiting information, see our forums.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ok, thanks. As I said, I don't know much about missiles.
                            Accurate DCS 2.5 Caucasus map - v1.0

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Now that I know what we're talking about, here's a video that clearly shows the R-27ET missile 1.0 second "safety maneuver" delay.

                              Accurate DCS 2.5 Caucasus map - v1.0

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Hi all,

                                I will share this with the weapons team but I can make no promises at the moment. We do have work planned for the R family missiles hopefully early next year.

                                thank you


                                Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by BIGNEWY View Post
                                  Hi all,

                                  I will share this with the weapons team but I can make no promises at the moment. We do have work planned for the R family missiles hopefully early next year.

                                  thank you
                                  If it was something that required a bigger overhaul then it would be absoluetly understandable to wait for the full rework.

                                  But all it takes in this case is changing a single number from 1.0 s to 0.4 s in the config file. Done.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by BlackPixxel View Post

                                    If it was something that required a bigger overhaul then it would be absoluetly understandable to wait for the full rework.

                                    But all it takes in this case is changing a single number from 1.0 s to 0.4 s in the config file. Done.
                                    It has already been mentioned the team are going to be working on the R family missiles in the new year, if things go to plan. I am sorry but you will need to continue to be patient.

                                    thanks



                                    Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      But in the meantime, until we get the new R-27 in 2+ years, this particular issue can be fixed completely by just changing a single number.

                                      Why not fix it?

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        FIXED with todays update!

                                        Now R-27R/ER use the safety maneuver time for the catapult launcher (1 s), while R-27T/ET use the safety maneuver time for the rail launcher (0.4 s).

                                        This is a good compromise until the safety maneuver time can be made launcher dependend.

                                        Thanks alot

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X