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    M61 20MM HE Damage

    First of all, I wanna say that the dispersion improvements are greatly welcomed and it is definitely better, but I believe the bigger problem with the cannon on Hornet has been the damage of its munition. I know they are only HE, which is a shame, compared to the available options on other aircraft, but.... surely the M61 munition is not weaker than the one of a Huey's Minigun ?

    The Hornet cannot (well, one out of 10 runs I was able to) do damage to, for example, an SA-6 LN, SA-11 LN or a BTR-80, but at the same time those same unarmored vehicles can be destroyed with 7.62 from the mini guns, which is realistic as they are not armored with exception to the BTR, which can withstand that frontally, but cannot to the sides, unless at extreme ranges.

    Below I have attached a track showing off multiple gun runs, with a dive angle between 30 and 40 degrees with no success and then hoping in a huey and destroying the targets. I later added a BTR as well to try it, didn't save the track tho.
    Attached Files
    'Shadow'

    Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

    #2
    Yeah the Hornet cannon damage is seriously wonky. I can kill some units (Patriot SAM bits) quite easy but you can put a Roland SAM EWR out there and it is literally impossible to strafe with the 18. A SAM RADAR....

    It isn't even consistent between SAM types as the SA-10 bits can be strafed but require a lot more hits than the Patriot bits.

    So yeah never mind lightly armored vehicles. You can See some completely un-armored vehicles that you cannot strafe with the 18.

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      #3
      The gun page on the Hornet says PGU, so hopefully we'll get the SAPHEI rounds.

      Comment


        #4
        Reported something similar (more narrow scope of affected units) back in January: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=260694
        REAPER 51 | Tholozor

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          #5
          Nice
          'Shadow'

          Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

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            #6
            In DCS damage currently depends on penetration.

            If you do not penetrate the armour you will do no damage.

            Until we have a better damage model for units it will remain this way, it is planned but I do not have any time frame.

            My advice is where possible use AP rounds.

            Thanks

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              #7
              ok, but...why not give AP rounds in the meantime, at least as placeholder ?
              would be just few code and let F18 strafing runs correctly.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by BIGNEWY View Post
                In DCS damage currently depends on penetration.

                If you do not penetrate the armour you will do no damage.

                Until we have a better damage model for units it will remain this way, it is planned but I do not have any time frame.

                Since when is a Roland SAM EWR considered to be a armored vehicle? Try to strafe that with an 18. Mission impossible.


                Originally posted by BIGNEWY View Post
                My advice is where possible use AP rounds.

                As soon as I can option that in to the 18 load out I'd love to...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Okey, I understand the penetration thing, but can't the unit's armor be adjusted, so penetration can happen ?

                  It doesn't make sense if the 20MM HE can destroy aircraft, but it can't destroy unarmored vehicles, "tin boxes".

                  Surely, this is more of a units armor adjustment thing....

                  7.62 doesn't have more pen than 20mm

                  At the same time, the Huey can destroy these SAM units, but it cannot destroy a Chaparrel
                  Last edited by Shadow KT; 04-07-2020, 10:28 AM.
                  'Shadow'

                  Everybody gotta be offended and take it personally now-a-days

                  Comment


                    #10
                    As mentioned it depends on penetration values and amour thickness.

                    I will take a look another look, armour thickness can be lower on the top or from the rear of the vehicle for example. It it is possible to damage them with HE but you have to get pretty close, I will raise the issue with the team.

                    Thanks

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                    Comment


                      #11
                      Short clip from testing



                      apologies for sound, my recording setup needs checking
                      Last edited by BIGNEWY; 04-08-2020, 04:16 PM.

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                        #12
                        Okay, according to BigNewy's comment in that YouTube video, the penetration even appears to rely on distance from target (or bullet-speed)
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by DanielNL View Post
                          Okay, according to BigNewy's comment in that YouTube video, the penetration even appears to rely on distance from target (or bullet-speed)
                          Of course bullet velocity matters, that is the whole point ( pun intended ) for a bullet or projectile.

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                            #14
                            When we will get different ammo types for gun, like in Viper?

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                              #15
                              Personally I think penetration of the 7.62x51 NATO the M134 shoots is a little over modeled in this sim at the moment. I can fly around in the Huey all day long and plink tanks with them T-55s, BTR60s and other artillary pieces you find on the quick mission page. There really isnt great armor penetration rounds for that caliber except for black tips, and half the ammo in the minigun is tracer rounds. Yet it has better penetration than the M61 20mm ammo...
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