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How on earth do AI planes detect my Sidewinder launch?

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    How on earth do AI planes detect my Sidewinder launch?

    What drives me crazy is the fact that when I fire a Sidewinder at an AI plane, it instantly begins popping flares even if I was literally miles away when I fired!
    How the heck did the enemy plane know I'd fired?
    It happens no matter what type of enemy plane it is (transport/fighter-bomber etc), and even his helis do it, sheesh!
    Surely it can't be realistic?

    #2
    @aimbotdefender... seriously though i see this too. i have tried to get them to prematurely drop flares and there seems to be a delay for them to do again. thats when i fire. honestly they seem to know when they are in your grasp because many times, in guns-only ACM, they pop flares too. so maybe not the detection of a missile firing.
    Last edited 09-13-2020, 06:15 PM.
    AKA_SilverDevil

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      #3
      Originally posted by silverdevil View Post
      @aimbotdefender... seriously though i see this too. i have tried to get them to prematurely drop flares and there seems to be a delay for them to do again. thats when i fire. honestly they seem to know when they are in your grasp because many times, in guns-only ACM, they pop flares too. so maybe not the detection of a missile firing.

      Good point, i'll try switching off my radar in case radar sweeps wake them up and makes them stand by with their fingers on the flares/chaff button, and report back to this thread later.
      Last edited 09-13-2020, 07:20 PM.

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        #4
        Because this is the way the AI currently works - simple as that.
        Try engaging an "ace ai during the night, without radar, only using your NVG to engage with a heatseeker - they will use flares the moment you launch, even if they have no missile warning system at all.

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          #5
          Cmon guys, it’s a computer program. When x=1 the flares pop and the ai dodge its that simple. I would think the only other way would be to either put a random generator to say “yes ai will react” or “no, they will ignore” And its an odds thing or perhaps put a timer before they react after launch is generated but they still “know” exactly what to do to dodge.
          The computer and everything on it knows exactly when you launch, what you launch and under what particular parameters. You can’t fool it, it only pretends to be beaten. AI is pretend after all, they have no real abilities to think...
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            #6
            Originally posted by Mr. Big.”Biggs” View Post
            Cmon guys, it’s a computer program. When x=1 the flares pop and the ai dodge its that simple. I would think the only other way would be to either put a random generator to say “yes ai will react” or “no, they will ignore” And its an odds thing or perhaps put a timer before they react after launch is generated but they still “know” exactly what to do to dodge.
            The computer and everything on it knows exactly when you launch, what you launch and under what particular parameters. You can’t fool it, it only pretends to be beaten. AI is pretend after all, they have no real abilities to think...

            No really. The computer knows everything, yes, but the entities in it can be configured to have its own senses and respond to them alone, nothing new here. The problem is DCS AI. It's way too simple and predictable. It needs more complexity. Let's take for example Assetto Corsa AI. Stefano literally taught his AI how to race a car like almost human. The AI in there follows the same rules of physics a any human player, no cheats, clairvoyant or artificial blindness and each AI on track is an individual entity. It took quite some time before it was perfected, but its achievable.

            x not always equals 1; it can have ramifications depending on the perception of the entity times a random variable.
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              #7
              Originally posted by PoorOldSpike View Post
              What drives me crazy is the fact that when I fire a Sidewinder at an AI plane, it instantly begins popping flares even if I was literally miles away when I fired!
              How the heck did the enemy plane know I'd fired?
              It happens no matter what type of enemy plane it is (transport/fighter-bomber etc), and even his helis do it, sheesh!
              Surely it can't be realistic?

              This bugs you, but the fact they constantly use after burners and never run out of fuel never bugged you? That what made me stop fighting AI before my break last night, when i made a test because i got a little fed up to see them keeping going vertical nonstop with burners on infinite and gave 10% fuel on the AI and the ran away from me full burners for over 50 nm, with 10% fuel remaining....

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                #8
                At the moment I'm finding the best way to overcome the AI's flare-popping frenzy is to give myself unlimited weapons so I can fire repeated volleys of Sidewinders at the AI planes, his flares/chaff will decoy some but not all, hehe.
                Sure, to Alice watching from the ground the skies will look like a cross between a fireworks display and a nuthouse but hey that's war..

                "Oh I do so wish something would make sense for a change"- Alice in Wonderland

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                  #9
                  I mean.. I see your point but at the same time.. even with AI popping flares the only times my heatseekers tend to miss AI are when I fire at a at a bad angle or too far away/too close. As long as I'm firing from a good angle and proper range they tend to hit regardless of flares.. AI doesn't maneuver hard enough to throw them off.
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                    #10
                    I ran some tests today in which I'd switched off my radar so the AI pilots wouldn't know I was buzzing around, and I also made them all 'Average' skill level, but it had no effect, they still popped flares the instant I fired Sidewinders from any angle and any range, it's highly unrealistic and doesn't do the reputation of DCS and the devs any good at all, grrr..

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Doum76 View Post
                      This bugs you, but the fact they constantly use after burners and never run out of fuel never bugged you? That what made me stop fighting AI before my break last night, when i made a test because i got a little fed up to see them keeping going vertical nonstop with burners on infinite and gave 10% fuel on the AI and the ran away from me full burners for over 50 nm, with 10% fuel remaining....

                      I've run them out of fuel a few times. Always considered it a failure because they should be dead before then.


                      The F/A-18 doing vertical rolls with an F-16 until I finally clipped the wing and ran it out of gas was entertaining. I know the Hornet much better than the Viper, and I can tell you there's no way it had that much energy. Same deal fighting an F-5 in an F-18. They put energy drinks in the tanks or something...



                      Just the nature of the beast.

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                        #12
                        The AI are poorly programmed. Simple as that. They're omniscient and know exactly when you've fired a missile when a human player in the same scenario wouldn't know, they can detect you visually in the dark, their radars overperform, and they're known to defy physics. I can't even fly formation turns with them because they slew laterally in 3D space to get back on flightpath. The AI is just bad.
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                          #13
                          its scripted, the ai aircraft will react and pop flares autonomously even after its pilot has ejected

                          the ai can pull 2g over the top with negative aoa. nuff said.
                          hahaha hey look at me i surely know more about aviation and coding than actual industry professionals hired for their competency because i have read jalopnik and wikipedia i bet theyve never even heard of google LOL

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                            #14
                            thats why i let my ai wing man to deal with them, what they can do, my wing man knows what they are planning to do in advanced

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                              #15
                              Hmm..so apparently I paid a whopping 62 GB pounds (75 US dollars) for DCS F/A-18 Hornet and find it contains a number of highly unrealistic features that much cheaper flight sims to their credit don't have, grrrr..

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by PoorOldSpike View Post
                                Hmm..so apparently I paid a whopping 62 GB pounds (75 US dollars) for DCS F/A-18 Hornet and find it contains a number of highly unrealistic features that much cheaper flight sims to their credit don't have, grrrr..
                                Yes, DCS World is imperfect and it's why I always advise players to explore the sim with the free Su-25T and TF-51D first.

                                The AI planes and logic you complain of are part of the base game, rather than a specific issue with the Hornet.

                                IIRC ED recently said they plan (hope ?) to improve the logic so "AI pilots" don't have the same 360° vision they have today but AFAIK there wasn't a timeline/road map when such a change might happen.
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                                  #17
                                  AI have been a problem no matter what the sim. Combat flight sim, auto racing, or 1st person shooters. AI are always a problem.

                                  If those who develop the AI will just ask the questions..........would I do that? or could I do that? If the answer is no. Then don't let the AI do it either.
                                  Buzz

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by PoorOldSpike View Post
                                    Hmm..so apparently I paid a whopping 62 GB pounds (75 US dollars) for DCS F/A-18 Hornet and find it contains a number of highly unrealistic features that much cheaper flight sims to their credit don't have, grrrr..
                                    The 62GBP were for the Hornet specifically, which doesn't have unrealistic features. The unrealistic "features" are issues with the 0GBP base game.
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                                      #19
                                      AI will defend against missiles within 10nm or half the missile range.

                                      We do have to compromise in some places with AI so we don't have to require everyone to have a NASA super computer to play DCS.

                                      Thanks


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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by BIGNEWY View Post
                                        AI will defend against missiles within 10nm or half the missile range.

                                        We do have to compromise in some places with AI so we don't have to require everyone to have a NASA super computer to play DCS.

                                        Thanks
                                        Or? Does that mean which ever is bigger of those two?
                                        And by missile range, you mean some fixed value or a value derived from the DLZ?
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