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What percentage of DCS Pilots can Reliably Air Refuel at least one Airframe?


CBenson89

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Difficult to put a percentage on it, but I'd say the majority of those who fly in multi-player.

Those who exclusively fly single player might struggle or outright avoid IFR since in SP campaigns it's hardly ever needed: there's no incentive to get good at it, and no penalty for avoiding it.

Multiplayer is a different animal altogether...

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Unknown. Personally, i can with no problems on the F-14, F-15 and F-18, F-16 however never wants to play ball! Think its probably to do with having that huge pipe over and behind me.

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I can do the A-10C, Hornet and M-2000C

It’s a more or less transferable skill

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Can, but it is not important to me. Did it, got the t-shirt, off to do things that are more fun.

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I play mostly single player and occasional multiplayer with 2 or 3 friends on some custom missions and campaigns we have designed, some of which require air-to-air refueling. I am able to refuel the F-18 and F-16 day or night, moon, no moon under the correct conditions (being considerations for speed and altitude the event occurs at).

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Add me to the list of people who suck at A2A refuelling,

 

I switch between so many airframes its difficult to stay proficient in all.

 

that's my excuse and I am sticking to it :)

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Yes I can, all I think but I find harrier & F15 hardest, a long extension to my warthog helped massively with this.

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Run a poll is the easiest way, but FYI, yes I can, and in several airframes, F18, Harrier, Mirage. Crap in the F16 though.

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Still getting to grips with the A10c, trying to lengthen the duration that I'm connected but its a difficult task... Trying to ignore the refuel boom is hard :cry:

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AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn.

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AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn.

 

I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes.

 

Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible.


Edited by =4c=Nikola

Do not expect fairness.

The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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AAR requires practice, not special hardware. As long as your joystick isn’t broken or defective it’s possible. It just takes time to learn.

 

The limitations of PC simulation and the hardware make it much harder than reality. People with better hardware won't need as much practice because they won't need the touch of a brain surgeon or the reflexes of a pro race car driver to move their joystick just the right fraction.

 

When you watch in-cockpit videos of real pilots taking off, landing, formation flying, etc. you can see them making frequent corrections that are fairly large movements. If I made those movements in DCS World, my aircraft would oscillate quite a bit. With a stick extension and/or good axis curve maps, the skill level required lowers quite a bit.

 

I flew for years with Saitek sticks: X-36 USB, X-45, X-52 Pro. I also flew with the Warthog for awhile. Now I primarily fly with the VKB Gunfighter but also have the Winwing stick. The hardware makes a difference: No noise spikes, no "sticktion", longer throw ranges, and I don't ever use custom curves, just flat linear response with no deadbands. The in-game stick goes exactly where I want it to. I can move the VKB and Winwing sticks exactly one step with little difficulty, which is like breathing on the stick. Don't tell me hardware doesn't make a difference.

 

You can see it on these forums. There are some people who could never quite refuel successfully, but after getting better hardware, found that it was a lot easier. Everyone focuses on the stick, but the throttle is equally important, which shows up in carrier landings as well as refueling. But no matter how good the hardware is, the task is still somewhat more difficult in a PC sim than reality, so practice is still a great idea. VR changes things. I can fly helicopters, land on carriers, and maintain situational awareness in violent rolling dogfights with multiple aircraft far better in VR than with TrackIR. I haven't done any refueling offline or online since I got VR, but I am almost certain that the improved sense of position and relative movement that I get in VR will make refueling a little easier, too. So, again, the hardware is a significant factor. It is just a matter of how much hardware matters versus practice, which will vary with the natural aptitude of individuals. Just as in real life, some people will be good no matter what they do and some will struggle no matter what they do while the rest of us have to work at it to get the job done.

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I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes.

 

Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible.

Ok fair enough. Yes you need a better throttle than the little flippy switch on a Logitech.

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I disagree.

And I disagree with you!

Simply, some mechanisms are incapable of producing fine and precise motion near center of joystick. Additionally, throttle range plays big role. Imagine doing F-16 aar with throttle slider that have 2cm of range. Impossible.
Laughing with my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. :joystick:

 

The F-16 has FLCS, the autopilot is always on in that jet. How could it be any easier?

 

Your hardware argument has no basis.

Yes you need a better throttle than the little flippy switch on a Logitech.

All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday.


Edited by randomTOTEN
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All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday.

:thumbup:

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And I disagree with you!

Laughing with my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. :joystick:

 

The F-16 has FLCS, the autopilot is always on in that jet. How could it be any easier?

 

Your hardware argument has no basis.

 

All day. Every day. Twice on Sunday.

 

Good luck.

Do not expect fairness.

The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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I came to DCS several months ago after flying the Superbug for quite a while on the old MS sim, with a crappy 5 year old $50 Thrustmaster HOTAS (I don't even remember the model). I was able to AAR after a couple practice session, but it was a chore.

 

When I upgraded to a Warthog stick and throttle, I was astonished at how much easier this task got. What I realized after switching back and forth a few times was that the cheap old HOTAS had an unpredictable dead zone in all axes. EG, you could make a stick deflection - say to the left - and experience a 1/16in dead zone... then recenter the stick and deflect it to the left again, and experience maybe a 1/8in dead zone. Different every time, so any task that requires fine control movements was a challenge.

 

With the Warthog (using zero curves or deadzone in the settings), it feels very natural. I'm not saying I plug on the first try *every* time, but when I don't I can tell it's my fault lol.

 

I'm coming from years of RW formation and jet flying experience (though never both at the same time) so I'm sure I was leaning on that a lot to accomplish refueling at all, with the old stick.

 

It's not fair to say that the solution to AAR refueling challenges is as simple as spending more money... but I'd say there is a baseline level of predictable precision in your control system that is, if strictly not required, certainly a massive help.

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I disagree. With old non-defective joystick I was unable to aar after god know how many hours of practice. When I bought new joystick, I've got it in 5 minutes.

This is funny, if you take what you wrote literally. You mean to say you learned to AAR in 5 minutes? Really?!

Or do you think those “many hours of practice” had as much or more to do with getting it?

You still needed many hours of practice, not just a new stick.

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