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    #41
    Originally posted by Hyena View Post
    Not a camera.

    Its a periscope mechanically connected to a CW radar emitter.
    How does it work and what does the image look like?

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      #42
      Originally posted by Hyena View Post
      Not a camera. Its a periscope mechanically connected to a CW radar emitter.
      A CW radar? I always thought it was similar to Fagot/Konkurs missiles, like a SACLOS system where the missile has a flare in the back which the system (9K114 Shturm) tracks with an IR tracker, but instead of sending radio correction commands via wire, radio signals are used instead via the characteristic antenna hanged under the nose.
      Last edited 10-16-2020, 07:30 AM.
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        #43
        Google Translate

        Originally posted by fargo007 View Post
        How does it work and what does the image look like?
        Same as in the next video (starting at 4:30).
        Originally posted by Silver_Dragon View Post
        AVIA TS has "reapears" with a new training video show a Mi-24/35 helicopter combat traning video.
        Originally posted by Dudikoff View Post
        A CW radar? I always thought it was similar to Fagot/Konkurs missiles, like a SACLOS system where the missile has a flare in the back which the system (9K114 Shturm) tracks with an IR tracker, but instead of sending radio correction commands via wire, radio signals are used instead via the characteristic antenna hanged under the nose.
        Yes, you are absolutely right. This is a conventional radio-guided SACLOS.
        Spoiler:
        Original in Russian

        Так же как и на следующем видео (начиная с 4:30).

        Да, Вы совершенно правы. Это обычная радиокомандная система наведения.

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          #44
          Huh. I know the Shturm is SACLOS, but I thought the 9M120 was a radar beam-rider.

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            #45
            Ataka is available as both radio command or laser guided SACLOS as far as I know. In radio command guise, it is mostly compatible with the same guidance that was used for Shturm. The chartacteristic "carrot" on the Mi-28's nose is for the guidance antenna for Atakas, again as far as I know. The latest variant omitted it, probably because they've mostly switched to laser guidance.

            Anyway, there really isn't much to read into sighting and guidance system in Mi-24 . An optical sight (a periscope to be precise) that is stabilized, but has no automatic tracking or built in rangefinding capability guides the missile to whereever it is looking at, through radio waves.
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              #46
              Originally posted by WinterH View Post
              The chartacteristic "carrot" on the Mi-28's nose is for the guidance antenna for Atakas, again as far as I know. The latest variant omitted it, probably because they've mostly switched to laser guidance.
              The NM variant finally omitted it IIRC, but it looks pretty ugly without it IMHO.
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                #47
                Originally posted by WinterH View Post
                Ataka is available as both radio command or laser guided SACLOS as far as I know. In radio command guise, it is mostly compatible with the same guidance that was used for Shturm. The chartacteristic "carrot" on the Mi-28's nose is for the guidance antenna for Atakas, again as far as I know. The latest variant omitted it, probably because they've mostly switched to laser guidance.

                Anyway, there really isn't much to read into sighting and guidance system in Mi-24 . An optical sight (a periscope to be precise) that is stabilized, but has no automatic tracking or built in rangefinding capability guides the missile to whereever it is looking at, through radio waves.
                looks a lot like a simple magnified rifle scope...

                you said it is stabilized... so in this case, can the operator put the cross over the target, press some button and it will keep looking at that point no matter helicopter movements?

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                  #48
                  Originally posted by jacobs View Post
                  you said it is stabilized... so in this case, can the operator put the cross over the target, press some button and it will keep looking at that point no matter helicopter movements?
                  nope
                  sigpic

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                    #49
                    Google Translate

                    Originally posted by WinterH View Post
                    Ataka is available as both radio command or laser guided SACLOS as far as I know…
                    Yes, that's right. The 9M120-1(F) ATGM modification has a SACLOS laser-beam riding.

                    Originally posted by WinterH View Post
                    … The chartacteristic "carrot" on the Mi-28's nose is for the guidance antenna for Atakas, again as far as I know. The latest variant omitted it, probably because they've mostly switched to laser guidance…
                    This is probably not the case. Judging by the KRET JSC information [web.archive in Russian], the capabilities of the SACLOS radio-guided of the ATGM is incorporated into the FCR mast-mounted of the Mi-28NM.

                    Originally posted by Dudikoff View Post
                    The NM variant finally omitted it IIRC, but it looks pretty ugly without it IMHO.
                    As far as I know, so far there is only one the Mil's helicopter modification with a SACLOS laser-beam riding it is the new Mi-35P prototype. Moreover, judging by the statements of the Mil Helicopters developers, this modification in the base complete set will not be equipped with an ATGW at all, but it can be equipped with an ATGW with a SACLOS laser-beam riding (Shturm-VU or Vikhr-M) at the request of the customer.
                    Spoiler:
                    Original in Russian
                    Originally posted by WinterH View Post
                    Ataka is available as both radio command or laser guided SACLOS as far as I know…
                    Да, это верно. Модификация ПТУР 9М120-1(Ф) имеет ЛЛКУ.

                    Originally posted by WinterH View Post
                    … The chartacteristic "carrot" on the Mi-28's nose is for the guidance antenna for Atakas, again as far as I know. The latest variant omitted it, probably because they've mostly switched to laser guidance…
                    Вероятно это не так. Судя по информации АО «КРЭТ» [веб-архив на русском языке], возможности РКСН ПТУР заложены в надвтулочную РЛС Ми-28НМ.

                    Originally posted by Dudikoff View Post
                    The NM variant finally omitted it IIRC, but it looks pretty ugly without it IMHO.
                    Насколько мне известно, пока существует только одна модификация милевского вертолёта с ЛЛКУ – это новый прототип Ми-35П. Причём судя по заявлениям разработчиков вертолётов Миля, эта модификация в базовой комплектации вообще не будет оснащаться ПТРК, однако на неё может быть установлен ПТРК с ЛЛКУ («Штурм-ВУ» или «Вихрь-М») по желанию заказчика.
                    Last edited 10-17-2020, 05:00 AM. Reason: update.

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                      #50
                      Originally posted by S.E.Bulba View Post
                      Same as in the next video (starting at 4:30).



                      Yes, you are absolutely right. This is a conventional radio-guided SACLOS.
                      Spoiler:
                      Original in Russian

                      Так же как и на следующем видео (начиная с 4:30).

                      Да, Вы совершенно правы. Это обычная радиокомандная система наведения.

                      Slightly O.T., but that's some pretty violent downwash effects the've implemented in that video - but I guess in a FFS having the trees thrash around adds to the immersion i& mental workload n tight landings near trees
                      Cheers.

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                        #51
                        Originally posted by S.E.Bulba View Post
                        Same as in the next video (starting at 4:30).
                        [/SPOILER]
                        In the video when shooting rockets the pilot's site isn't gyro-stabilized? This looks very "simplistic", like in Mi-8. I was under the impression pilot's sight for rockets/cannon is more advanced?
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                          #52
                          Google Translate

                          Originally posted by CoBlue View Post
                          In the video when shooting rockets the pilot's site isn't gyro-stabilized? This looks very "simplistic", like in Mi-8. I was under the impression pilot's sight for rockets/cannon is more advanced?
                          Do you mean the ASP-17V gunsight? Yes, these points were discussed on Russian forums. There is an assumption that the pilot shoots without an ATsVU analog-digital computing device in manual mode (the range is set to '0'). In this firing mode, the ASP-17V operates as a conventional gyro gunsight, and nevertheless there are indeed questions about the implementation of the gunsight gyrostabilization by the "AVIA", Ltd.
                          Spoiler:
                          Original in Russian

                          Вы имеете в виду прицел АСП-17В? Да, эти моменты обсуждалось на русскоязычных форумах. Есть предположение, что пилот стреляет без аналого-цифрового вычислительного устройства АЦВУ в ручном режиме (установка дальности выставлена на «0»). В этом режиме стрельбы АСП-17В работает как обычный гироскопический прицел, и тем не менее к реализации гиростабилизации прицела от НПО «АВИА» действительно есть вопросы.

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                            #53
                            Originally posted by xxJohnxx View Post

                            I kinda expect that to be possible in DCS as well. I mean we already have the Garmin NS430 in the sim.
                            That would be nice. Any reason for them to actually complete the NS430, or just make it… well… work, would be nice.
                            Last edited 10-23-2020, 11:08 AM. Reason: …because apparently, these new forums don't support Unicode.

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