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    KA-50 RADAR Warning Receiver

    Hello.


    I just want to say in simple short way that the new Ka-50 must have a RWR which is a real part of other Russian helicopters Mi-24 and the Ka-52 and so on. the Fact that the early Ka-50 didn't have RWR because it was a prototype tested in a RADAR absence threat environment!


    Nowadays in real life a Ka-50 if it was continued it would have had RWR due to the new nature of it's modern operation domain.


    ED even the oldest RWR like found in the MiG-21 and early Mi-24s will do. I want to see it in the new Ka-50. In fact for me a RWR is more important than a IRCCD.


    To all the people who care about this please make sure that you show that. Thanks.
    Last edited 07-03-2019, 05:29 AM.

    #2
    Actually, from what I've read, I think RWR and jamming is supposed to be a part of the President-S modular system. Supposedly, it's different for different craft though.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 3WA View Post
      Actually, from what I've read, I think RWR and jamming is supposed to be a part of the President-S modular system. Supposedly, it's different for different craft though.

      I double check and Asked on the russian forum and the asnwer was the new ka-50 will not have RWR




      https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=174




      So ED please make plan for RWR and add it to the cost... use something already in the game. Anyway that's what the Russian do in real life...!
      Last edited 07-03-2019, 05:50 AM.

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        #4
        The president system supposedly has a huge range of detection, Idont think you’ll miss a rwr

        Comment


          #5
          You gonna need a Mi-24 buddy as wingman. That will help. Who know... maybe they release both together.
          sigpic

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            #6
            You don't need RWR as it is useful only against AAA with search radar.
            You don't get alarm from ranging (IIRC). The radar SAM would benefit from being able find it, but President-S already detects the missile launch direction and range so you get warning.

            Problem is that we do not know the new KA-50 glass cockpit systems etc. So such can't be simulated. As the wouldn't be SPO but all on screens.
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              #7
              I single pilot controlling incoming missiles warnings is like too much. The engineer probably banned this warning threat because probably they knew Mi-24 will be at the same battlefield. At the end of the day they end in Ka-5Two, two pilots.
              sigpic

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                #8
                RWR for Helos is super useful that is normally speaking but when the helo have A-A capabilities well it get to be essential!!!


                What a weird thing that I read! It's not added to the Ka-50 because it's operated by 1 crew?! WTH?! maybe you have never seen RWR in single crewed fighter jets so please go check them up.


                That's great news if the President-S is able to detect all missiles launches, but remember that most of SAMs are 3+ mach so the window of time to react is not existent (because remember that it's low and slow flying craft that make things even worse)!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Most SAMs that you should be worried about are not radar guided.
                  sigpic
                  Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
                  I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                    Most SAMs that you should be worried about are not radar guided.
                    Red on Red tells me something different, Red on blue with their air superiority screams at me that this statement is simply not correct!

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                      Most SAMs that you should be worried about are not radar guided.

                      Lol, YEP!


                      Originally posted by Rogue Trooper View Post
                      Red on Red tells me something different, Red on blue with their air superiority screams at me that this statement is simply not correct!

                      If you're worried about Radar SAMs, and they are on the Battlefield, you are up WAYYY too High!



                      You need to keep tree's and any cover you can between you and those SAMS. Much easier to spot Igla and Stinger near you, than some Tunguska launching 6km away.


                      Spot the Tunguska at slightly above tree top level. Then dive back down. Keep hills, terrain, and anything else you can between him and you. Then pop-up, and fire a fast moving Vhiker. Soon as you hit, DIVE for cover.




                      Fighters are my Worst enemy. I've been killed by them flying just above a road between trees and buildings. They can snipe you anywhere.
                      Last edited 07-03-2019, 10:05 PM.

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                        #12
                        I said 'SAMs'.

                        That people can't IFF or that some choose to fly their heli into contested (or uncontested, to their own detriment) airspace is their problem ... not sure what you'd want the RWR to do about this. Right now DCS makes helis stealth when they drop below the notch gate value ... and this should really be corrected.

                        At this point, what good will an RWR do compared to a warning by AWACS?

                        Originally posted by Rogue Trooper View Post
                        Red on Red tells me something different, Red on blue with their air superiority screams at me that this statement is simply not correct!
                        sigpic
                        Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
                        I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                          At this point, what good will an RWR do compared to a warning by AWACS?

                          And this is why we need Ka-52 as a Group Leader, so it can pass the Ka-50 that info.


                          Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                          I said 'SAMs'.

                          DOH! Took me a sec to get that. Corrected.


                          And what do you mean by "notch gate value". I've never really understood exactly how that targeting gate works on the Ka-50.
                          Last edited 07-03-2019, 10:04 PM.

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                            #14
                            As soon as you reduce speed to a certain level, you disappear off the radar screen of fighters that are at a higher altitude than the helo. It's 'free stealth' for helis that shouldn't be there.
                            sigpic
                            Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
                            I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                              As soon as you reduce speed to a certain level, you disappear off the radar screen of fighters that are at a higher altitude than the helo. It's 'free stealth' for helis that shouldn't be there.
                              In the DCS there should be no Doppler radars?
                              Spoiler:
                              Original in Russian

                              В DCS не должно быть доплеровских радаров?
                              Sorry, I don't speak English, so I use Google Translate.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by GGTharos View Post
                                As soon as you reduce speed to a certain level, you disappear off the radar screen of fighters that are at a higher altitude than the helo. It's 'free stealth' for helis that shouldn't be there.

                                THIS I shall remember! But, actually it doesn't work. Because I take on the fighters a lot, and even moving very slowly near the ground, they get me. Usually with their guns. I'll try hovering, and see if it works.


                                But, yeah, as Bulba points out, we should show up in the Doppler like a BonFire.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Almost every radar in DCS is a doppler radar.
                                  sigpic
                                  Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump
                                  I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    For Doppler radars, the Notch is generally where the target is not moving much relative to the radar (so, flying at the same speed in the same direction or crossing perpendicular without rapidly reducing or increasing range. ) which makes it harder to detect as doppler detects targets based on their movement toward or away from the radar).

                                    Helicopters, can instead exploit their ability to fly very low and slow to become indistinguishable from terrain. This works two ways:

                                    1) Doppler radars will start to reject contacts that are travelling below a certain speed relative to the ground. This is so the air-to-air radar isn't picking up cars driving along roads, trees waving in the wind, boats etc. Helicopters can easily get below this speed if required.

                                    2) Pulse Radars, which rely on a distinct reflection from a contact with nothing else around it work best when not looking at the ground (which is one giant reflection for them). It is possible for a Pulse radar to see an aircraft that is high enough above the ground to give a reflection before the ground reflection comes in, but for air-to-air radar, this altitude is several hundred feet. So, a helicopter in the trees will usually blend into the ground reflection.

                                    Now, Modern Radars get around this by looking to detect the one thing a helicopter cannot hide, its rotors. The Rotors present a very distinct Doppler effect as the blades are rapidly moving towards and away from the observer as they rotate. If set up for it, the radar will return anything that matches that rapid Doppler flickering as a helicopter. However, due to the smaller comparative size of the rotor blades, a hovering helicopter will be detected at a shorter range than a fast moving one (which presents a normal doppler return just like a plane).

                                    So: To avoid detection, your best bet is to stay low and <60kph when moving in areas likely to have radars that can immediately target you. This is on the premise that any of what have just written is modelled properly in DCS (my experience with AI F5Es suggests it isn't really).

                                    Once you get close enough to fire Vhikrs it is likely that Tunguska and TOR systems will detect you if you are line of sight to them anyway, so you are simply better off exploiting the game mechanic of the countdown they require before launching. ID them at range, mark on the data link and then use DL Ingress to acquire them and fire at closer range before they can react.

                                    This doesn't alleviate the need for an RWR for self protection and target location, but I guess we'll see what ED actually fits. Relying on the Missile Launch Warning is a poor choice as it means a missile is already on its way and it also won't allow you to sniff out search radars either. The fundamental mismatch here is that we are forever flying the KA50 in missions where the threat is far higher than it was equipped for (Chechnya, so no real radar threats) and as there is no other attack helicopter available it keeps getting thrown into MP missions particularly where there are a whole mess of Radar threats.

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                                      #19
                                      OMG! guys all you care about is the Ground radar SAMs, I'm crying about it because I want some kind of early warning against Air Radar threats.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Mmm, yeah, but usually they won't come at you till they get close. I think only once have I had something like an R-27 fired at me. And yeah, without RWR, you have no warning. You're toast.


                                        Usually, they come at me with their guns.

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