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    Su-27SM, Is it possible for DCS?

    As the title said, having a Su-27SM would be extremely excited and it will be a game-changer.

    Because from what I've heard, most of the system and flight characteristics still being locked up since it was highly classified by the Russian government and Air Force.

    BTW, if the high fidelity of the modern version is very difficult to make, then what about the arcade? just like one of the FC3 that ED could sell separately as the Su-27SM module.

    Is it possible?

    #2
    Nope, it wont be a game changer. Why do you think that ? Also ED allready said that they wont do low fidelity planes (like Su-25T and Flaming Chilffs 3) any more. But its still possible if a 3rd dev would make it.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Mike_Romeo View Post
      Nope, it wont be a game changer.
      Thats an interesting statement given a new, much more modern RWR, a more modern radar and tons of guided AG weapons, making the plane a significant multirole threat, especially against SAMs and Ships. In the case of Su-27SM3 a significantly improved active missile, the R-77-1.

      FM is there, the air to ground logic is already there with Su-25T, and you can mod a lot of the weapons onto the Su-27S in DCS. Radar - increase range and decrease notching filter a bit, maybe improve TWS to what the DCS eagle can do. MFD pages - dont need to model them, just do it like with DCS F-15C.

      I dont see the problems with modelling it in MAC/FC3 standard. Enough people just need to ask, so ED realizes that its not only important for the sim environment, but also economically viable.

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        #4
        Originally posted by Max1mus View Post
        a new, much more modern RWR, a more modern radar and tons of guided AG weapons, making the plane a significant multirole threat, especially against SAMs and Ships. In the case of Su-27SM3 a significantly improved active missile, the R-77-1.

        Well thats all very nice but it woudn't make is a gamechanger. A gamechanger is for me something completly new what never had been saw befor like JF-17 with their SD-10 (befor it got nerfed) AGK-802 MITL cruise missile and a RWR that can actually range threats.



        I would love to see all that stuff in my 27, realy. But other planes have all these futures and so its not a gamechanger (for me at least). But its would be very nice to have it, I cannot contradict that .

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          #5
          Originally posted by Max1mus View Post
          Thats an interesting statement given a new, much more modern RWR, a more modern radar and tons of guided AG weapons, making the plane a significant multirole threat, especially against SAMs and Ships. In the case of Su-27SM3 a significantly improved active missile, the R-77-1.

          FM is there, the air to ground logic is already there with Su-25T, and you can mod a lot of the weapons onto the Su-27S in DCS. Radar - increase range and decrease notching filter a bit, maybe improve TWS to what the DCS eagle can do. MFD pages - dont need to model them, just do it like with DCS F-15C.

          I dont see the problems with modelling it in MAC/FC3 standard. Enough people just need to ask, so ED realizes that its not only important for the sim environment, but also economically viable.
          I m totally in for that.

          If its not possible to make full fidelity russian multirole fighter, than at least FC3 level
          Bye, Smith

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            #6
            Originally posted by JUSOCOM View Post

            Is it possible?
            Short answer? No.

            Long answer? The Russian military is very touchy about in-service military aircraft. Certain aircraft (such as the HIND) seem to be possible, while others (mostly high-performance fighter jets) are a big NO, NO.
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              #7
              Originally posted by JUSOCOM View Post
              As the title said, having a Su-27SM would be extremely excited and it will be a game-changer.

              Because from what I've heard, most of the system and flight characteristics still being locked up since it was highly classified by the Russian government and Air Force.

              BTW, if the high fidelity of the modern version is very difficult to make, then what about the arcade? just like one of the FC3 that ED could sell separately as the Su-27SM module.

              Is it possible?
              Probably not.

              The flight characteristics are not the problem. The Su-27SM is an upgrade to the old Su-27S in much the same way as e.g. the F-16AM(MLU) is to the F-16A - i.e. it uses the original airframe and flight control system, but has a modernised cockpit and system's complex.

              The big issue I can think of, is the new MFDs/symbology - there is very little open source info on this to be found, so even an FC3 style representation could be problematic to do.....at least if its to meet a minimum degree of realism.

              But who knows

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                #8
                Originally posted by Max1mus View Post
                Thats an interesting statement given a new, much more modern RWR, a more modern radar and tons of guided AG weapons, making the plane a significant multirole threat, especially against SAMs and Ships. In the case of Su-27SM3 a significantly improved active missile, the R-77-1.
                Yes agree that it would be a "game changer" for "REDFOR", but while you are right about the RWR and AG armament, the radar is not really "more modern" - at least in its initial form, the Su-27SM has an upgraded version of the original N001 radar - more capable and with an "add-on" TWS mode for R-77 employment + air-to-surface modes, but nevertheless still a case of an upgrade to older technology. It has a more modern EOS(with TV channel) though, which also adds to its multirole capability.

                FM is there
                Yeah that should be fine, but...

                ..., the air to ground logic is already there with Su-25T, and you can mod a lot of the weapons onto the Su-27S in DCS.
                What does the "AG logic" of the Su-25T has to do with the Su-27SM? - the Su-25T has no radar AG modes(doesn't have a radar at all) and the optical Shkval/Vikhr combination is nothing like the new OLS of the Su-27SM.

                Radar - increase range and decrease notching filter a bit, maybe improve TWS to what the DCS eagle can do. MFD pages - dont need to model them, just do it like with DCS F-15C.
                That sounds more like some crude user mod than something you could seriously expect ED to do.

                I dont see the problems with modelling it in MAC/FC3 standard. Enough people just need to ask, so ED realizes that its not only important for the sim environment, but also economically viable.
                Even MAC/FC3 standard comes with a high degree of realism - lots of things are simplified or missing, but none of the current FC3 aircraft are completely detatched from reality like your suggestions for an Su-27SM.

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                  #9
                  It would be the perfect counter part to the F-16/18 in game. So would MiG-29K with the Zhuk ME radar

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                    #10
                    If anyone makes a modern Flanker, I'm putting my money on Deka making a Su-30MKK


                    As for avionics of the Su-27SM they could do it, mostly the same avionics/radar as a Su-30MKK and the Deka devs do have those avionics manuals

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by TaxDollarsAtWork View Post
                      If anyone makes a modern Flanker, I'm putting my money on Deka making a Su-30MKK


                      As for avionics of the Su-27SM they could do it, mostly the same avionics/radar as a Su-30MKK and the Deka devs do have those avionics manuals
                      I think they want more Chinese home build. Such is expected.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mike_Romeo View Post
                        Nope, it wont be a game changer. Why do you think that ? Also ED allready said that they wont do low fidelity planes (like Su-25T and Flaming Chilffs 3) any more. But its still possible if a 3rd dev would make it.
                        So what happened with Modern Air Combat?
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hammer1-1 View Post
                          So what happened with Modern Air Combat?
                          MAC will not be a part of DCS. Its gona be a standalone. ED wont do any low fidelity plane for DCS any more.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mike_Romeo View Post
                            MAC will not be a part of DCS. Its gona be a standalone. ED wont do any low fidelity plane for DCS any more.
                            That is again questionable, as in the second interview with the ED marketing chief, it was again said that MAC will be part of DCS World as a module.

                            They are going back and worth with it....

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                              #15
                              So technically they are still doing FC3 level aircraft.
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                                #16
                                Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
                                That is again questionable, as in the second interview with the ED marketing chief, it was again said that MAC will be part of DCS World as a module.

                                They are going back and worth with it....

                                https://youtu.be/zRKL0yZHvwg

                                In the interview with the CEO of DCS and Growling Sidewinder, it was said that MAC is "a independent product [...]" and "[...]its a stepping stone from warthunder befor getting into dcs". It also was said that it will be "inbetween warthunder and DCS" so that means it will NOT be a part of DCS.


                                source: https://youtu.be/OhpwuAGqstc?t=2763 46:04 and following


                                Also BN said it gona be standalone:


                                Attached Files
                                Last edited 09-06-2020, 04:32 PM.

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                                  #17
                                  I always read it as “we will will not do a FC3 level module unless there is a full fidelity version to sell along side it”

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                                    #18
                                    At this point I am ready for either in terms of MAC being part of DCS, I've seen way too much conflicting information to even make a guess
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                                      #19
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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Mike_Romeo View Post
                                        In the interview with the CEO of DCS and Growling Sidewinder, it was said that MAC is "a independent product [...]" and "[...]its a stepping stone from warthunder befor getting into dcs". It also was said that it will be "inbetween warthunder and DCS" so that means it will NOT be a part of DCS.


                                        source: https://youtu.be/OhpwuAGqstc?t=2763 46:04 and following


                                        Also BN said it gona be standalone:


                                        That is as well still in conflict what is said before.

                                        What I think can be 100% sure to be said is that MAC will be a standalone product that you can buy just like any other game and you do not need DCS World.
                                        But the conflicting information is as well that MAC aircrafts would be available to DCS World players in it, without requirement to have two products installed (MAC + DCSW).

                                        I don't think anyone ever got the impression that the aircrafts that MAC models (MiG-21Bis, AV-8B N/A etc etc) will be removed from the DCSW because they would come to MAC as "FC3" versions.
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