[LATER IN EARLY ACCESS] Flight Model Update?

[Stearmandriver]

Hello,

 

ED stated a while ago now that the Hornet FM update would be coming hopefully in the next update. There have been at least a few updates to the open beta since then, and the Hornet still has the backwards ground effect bug. Is there an updated timeline on when to expect a fixed flight model?

[Stearmandriver]

Huh, several questions asked after this one have been addressed by an ED rep... did this one fall through the cracks? I'll bump it...

[Stearmandriver]

Kind of odd that this got moved to the "wish list" section, isn't it? It doesn't have anything to do with me making a request for a feature... it's about a fix for a significant bug in the basic aerodynamics modeling of the Hornet, that ED themselves officially announced was coming several updates ago. I'm just wondering why it hasn't yet materialized, and when we might see it? It affects the LSO grading on the supercarrier in a pretty significant way.

[ΗΟLΙDΛΥ]

High Altitude Drag/Flight Model

 

I'm no expert however, it does seem like the flight model could use an update.

 

The Hornet feels like it has more drag depending on the loadout at high altitude vs low altitude. I sometimes struggle anywhere above angels 25 at a 5-7 degree climb even when the aircraft is clean to get above 300 knots especially at angels 30.

 

According to the Natops 200 manual, the F-18C should easily be at somewhere near Mach .8 or more at 25,000-30,000 feet and burn less fuel with the air being thinner. Several variables affect this like the weight, loadout, et cetera however, I do believe this should be addressed eventually.

 

Again, I'm no expert. Just doesn't seem correct in the simulator to me.

Edited September 29, 2020 by HOLIDAY
1.16

[Stearmandriver]

I think this is just a chart of how mach number relates to calibrated airspeed with altitude; it would be the same for any aircraft. I've seen a lot of speculation about the DCS Hornet being too draggy though, so you aren't alone there. I don't personally know how draggy a Hornet should feel, but I kind of like how she flies in general, so I'll stay out of that particular fight ;).

 

The two things I know for sure are wrong are two things that ED has already confirmed they're fixing, and these are what I'm wondering about:

 

1. The balloon upon flap extension, when the FCS shifts into PA mode and pitches up hard to immediately chase on- speed AOA. That's annoying and destabilizing, but can be compensated for.

 

2. The fact that ground effect is modeled backwards, so that flying near the ground actually sucks you into the ground. You don't typically fly low enough to notice this, but the glaring exception is during a carrier recovery which should not involve any flare. You'll see the DCS Hornet AOA indications shift to Fast as the nose pitches down almost 5 degrees in the instant before touchdown; this almost invariably leads to the supercarrier grading you as 3ptIW, which is automatically a no-grade or cut pass. I have a suspicion it also contributes to the "eased gun" grade that is so often assigned to a Hornet pass even when there was no throttle reduction - maybe because of a rapid increase in descent rate immediately before touchdown? Not sure, but it seems related somehow.

 

Neither of these things really affects the Hornet's ability to fly a nice 3-wire pass; the reverse ground effect is so transitory that it doesn't really have time to affect the aircraft's flight path... but it completely ruins LSO pass grading right now, on the supercarrier. It happily does not affect the Airboss script or Bankler's recovery trainer. Sure would be nice to have the normal LSO grading work correctly too, though.

[ΗΟLΙDΛΥ]

Hornet Flight Model

 

I think this is just a chart of how mach number relates to calibrated airspeed with altitude; it would be the same for any aircraft. I've seen a lot of speculation about the DCS Hornet being too draggy though, so you aren't alone there. I don't personally know how draggy a Hornet should feel, but I kind of like how she flies in general, so I'll stay out of that particular fight ;).

 

The two things I know for sure are wrong are two things that ED has already confirmed they're fixing, and these are what I'm wondering about:

 

1. The balloon upon flap extension, when the FCS shifts into PA mode and pitches up hard to immediately chase on- speed AOA. That's annoying and destabilizing, but can be compensated for.

 

2. The fact that ground effect is modeled backward so that flying near the ground actually sucks you into the ground. You don't typically fly low enough to notice this, but the glaring exception is during a carrier recovery which should not involve any flare. You'll see the DCS Hornet AOA indications shift to Fast as the nose pitches down almost 5 degrees in the instant before touchdown; this almost invariably leads to the supercarrier grading you as 3ptIW, which is automatically a no-grade or cut pass. I have a suspicion it also contributes to the "eased gun" grade that is so often assigned to a Hornet pass even when there was no throttle reduction - maybe because of a rapid increase in descent rate immediately before touchdown? Not sure, but it seems related somehow.

 

Neither of these things really affects the Hornet's ability to fly a nice 3-wire pass; the reverse ground effect is so transitory that it doesn't really have time to affect the aircraft's flight path... but it completely ruins LSO pass grading right now, on the supercarrier. It happily does not affect the Airboss script or Bankler's recovery trainer. Sure would be nice to have the normal LSO grading work correctly too, though.

 

Well said! I'm no expert either and I want to make it clear too that I'm not complaining. I'm very grateful for the Hornet we have. I'm just saying that the drag at high altitude doesn't seem realistic. The Hornet overall has come such a long way too. It's in my opinion one of the most capable multirole modules we have in DCS despite the few flight model "quirks" and it seems like it just keeps evolving for the better. I've personally never flown any fighter jet and wouldn't claim to be an armchair expert either by any means lol.

 

I'm sure ED will listen to the community's feedback. :)

[Aarnoman]

I would like to know when this is planned as well, least of all because it was the highest ranked item in the hornet poll.

[Spurts]

The chart posted is an airframe structural limit chart and has nothing to do with the ability of the engine to reach those speeds. The Hornet is, from the pilots own mouths, the slowest of the teen series. "It gets slow faster than anything else and gets fast slower than anything else".

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

please remember our 1.16 rule regarding sharing information from NATOPS

 

I have removed the image from the manual.

 

Thanks

[Hawkeye_UK]

The OP quite rightly highlights the major issue re the reverse ground effect. IRL the effect happens to be the opposite and a rule of thumb in any aircraft is that the ground effect is approximately half the wingspan.

 

Anyway, in game, yes i've been sucked in by the hornet flight model a few times (terrible pun). I'm confident ED will get there and it's been acknowledged.