not realistic Air to Air refuelling

[Meyomyx]

I'm on the point of giving up DCS. Refuelling is unreasoinably difficult. I've spent hours, watched videos .... no luck. Without refuelling, the F18 is very limited in what it can do.

 

Without some mode of making this slightly easier, it's very very VERY dispiriting.

[hornblower793]

I'm on the point of giving up DCS. Refuelling is unreasoinably difficult. I've spent hours, watched videos .... no luck. Without refuelling, the F18 is very limited in what it can do.

 

Without some mode of making this slightly easier, it's very very VERY dispiriting.

 

 

AAR is about the most difficult thing you will have to do in DCS (it is not easy IRL) - what particular issue are you having and we may be able to help

Edited May 24, 2020 by hornblower793

[Meyomyx]

That's kind of you. I keep hearing it's difficult and to keep practicing but it seems just so difficult. Most of the videos seem to be a showcase for people who have mastered the task.

 

I have a warthog. I've tried various deadzones and curves (currently 8/10)

 

I can get into position. Then at the last minute all I get is the probe drifting through the basket without connecting. An endless cycle. I've managed to connect for about 10 seconds twice in 2 weeks.

 

Any aspirations to do longer missions are on permanent hold as I end up running out of gas and swimming.

 

There really should be a facility to allow the positional tolerance of the basket/probe connection to be altered in the menu options to allow users to progressively improve their skills (by reducing the tolerance). I'm not sure how much longer I should keep practicing. A week? A month? It's impossible to know whether I'm improving.

[Meyomyx]

..... ironically I have no problem whatever with carrier recoveries!

[Kang]

Which tanker craft are you using? Perhaps exchanging it for a different one might temporary solve your problem.

No idea if it's true, but I always feel the KC-135MPRS drogue 'snaps' on a little bit more than the ol' S-3B's, for example.

[hornblower793]

I can get into position. Then at the last minute all I get is the probe drifting through the basket without connecting. An endless cycle. I've managed to connect for about 10 seconds twice in 2 weeks.

 

 

I also started like this and, while not yet perfect by any means I can now hook up regular and replenish tanks. I also have a Warthog throttle.

What has ended up working for me is:

 

1. Working out which part of each tanker type works as a point of reference and then spending time flying formation with the tanker without trying to refuel. This will get you used to making small throttle and joystick adjustments

 

2. When trying to refuel, getting settled behind the tanker before calling ready pre-contact (I like to sit to the left and slightly down of where the left wing basket will be - gives me good peripheral vision of the basket as I close in)

 

3. When making the final approach for connection, keep your eyes fixed on your reference point on the tanker - do not sneak a look at the basket

 

4. You need to pro-actively walk the throttles - don't forget you have two of them which work independently so you can always just move one to get a very small change in thrust.

 

5. As you close in keep your speed differential to the tanker small, but do not ease off this until you have made contact - KEEP WATCHING THE TANKER

 

6. When you lose contact back off again a reasonable distance and re-settled before trying again - take this opportunity to stretch your hands because you are almost guaranteed to have been holding the joystick too hard.

 

 

I found 104th_Maverick's AAR video very helpful (

) it is for the F-14 but the principles are very well explained

 

 

Keep at it - the feeling when you get it right is great

Edited May 24, 2020 by hornblower793

[PL_Harpoon]

I'm tempted to say "get a better HOTAS and a VR headset" cause it was way easier that way for me.

 

 

 

But...

I've struggled with AAR myself and got it without those gadgets so it can be done.

 

 

Maverick's video is really good. I'd also suggest setting up curves on the stick. I was overcorrecting, even with tiny movements of the stick and setting the curves helped a lot.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

..... ironically I have no problem whatever with carrier recoveries!

I prefer learning with KC-130 because the square wing provides a better reference for formation flying.

Providing you are able to fly alongside the tanker matching speeds, , then move into position by keeping your heading "^" marker over the refuelling pod. Once you get closer you can star focusing on basket.

 

I struggle big time for carrier recoveries both Hornet and Tomcat lol

[t1mb0b]

Not everything in life is easy or handed to us on a plate, and quite rightly.

Practice more, watch youtubes on it, or stop playing DCS.

It's a SIM not a PlayStation game.

[razo+r]

Not everything in life is easy or handed to us on a plate, and quite rightly.

Practice more, watch youtubes on it, or stop playing DCS.

It's a SIM not a PlayStation game.

 

OT, but to correct your misinformation (Quote from DCS Website): Digital Combat Simulator World (DCS World) 2.5 is a free-to-play digital battlefield game.

[Haptor]

That's kind of you. I keep hearing it's difficult and to keep practicing but it seems just so difficult. Most of the videos seem to be a showcase for people who have mastered the task.

 

I have a warthog. I've tried various deadzones and curves (currently 8/10)

 

I can get into position. Then at the last minute all I get is the probe drifting through the basket without connecting. An endless cycle. I've managed to connect for about 10 seconds twice in 2 weeks.

 

Any aspirations to do longer missions are on permanent hold as I end up running out of gas and swimming.

 

There really should be a facility to allow the positional tolerance of the basket/probe connection to be altered in the menu options to allow users to progressively improve their skills (by reducing the tolerance). I'm not sure how much longer I should keep practicing. A week? A month? It's impossible to know whether I'm improving.

 

 

I have been there too. Now I can plug at first try most of the times and keep there till I finish. And most of the trip was getting to stay hooked for more than 10 secs. Then, things get better quickly.

 

 

What I did is practice some time everyday. It doesnt matter if you do well or not. To succesfully refuel you need 2 things. One, to have a feeling which trajectory the basket must doo in your cockpit so you gey into it. Second, a muscle memmory of how much you have to move your stick and throttle to keep position or move a little.

 

 

Both skills need a little time to build up, but when you get them (and you will get them) it is so much easier...

Do not give up. You are not far from succeeding ;)

[Oozler]

Everyone in video's and comments will say to fly in formation reference with the tanker.

 

But let me provide an alternative way of thinking that might help in this case. Focus on the drogue until you have made contact. Then, switch focus to a place of your choosing (I choose a place through the drogue or on the actual wing-mount for the drogue system and I fly formation with that).

 

I find the two most challenging elements for new pilots is controlling approach speed to the drogue so you don't overrun while, conversely losing forward momentum just shy of the drogue which can quickly lead to PIO (pilot induced oscillation) and an unsteady aircraft.

 

I have faith - it is 90 percent nerves. Less is more.

[Bremspropeller]

That's kind of you. I keep hearing it's difficult and to keep practicing but it seems just so difficult. Most of the videos seem to be a showcase for people who have mastered the task.

 

I have a warthog. I've tried various deadzones and curves (currently 8/10)

 

I can get into position. Then at the last minute all I get is the probe drifting through the basket without connecting. An endless cycle. I've managed to connect for about 10 seconds twice in 2 weeks.

 

Any aspirations to do longer missions are on permanent hold as I end up running out of gas and swimming.

 

There really should be a facility to allow the positional tolerance of the basket/probe connection to be altered in the menu options to allow users to progressively improve their skills (by reducing the tolerance). I'm not sure how much longer I should keep practicing. A week? A month? It's impossible to know whether I'm improving.

 

 

1) I know this sounds stupid, but did you tell the tanker you're ready in pre-contact? If you don't, you can stab for that basked all you like - you'll just put that probe right through it.

 

 

2) Don't use curves - they don't do anything for you. Fly formation. Fly formation a lot and watch how much smoother your control-inputs are getting. When you're proficient, you'll notice, you're barely moving the warthog at all - it's just a matter of pressure.

 

 

3) Have you thought about getting a stick-extension? The biggest difference in terms of control-setup is that your stick doesn't move ten inches.

[JellyBean]

Hi Meyomyx, just wanted to check a couple of things.

 

Are you practicing against the S3, or if on one of the other tankers using both the radio calls, 'request rejoin' and 'ready pre-contact' and going to the correct basket?

 

I only ask because from memory you can get that situation you were talking about, the probe going straight through the basket and never connecting, when you try to plug into a hose that isn't expecting you. It's not a problem with the S3 of course as it only has the one hose and it is retracted unless it is expecting you.

 

But even if that is not the issue, and on a positive note, you are getting close to mastering AAR if you are consistently putting the probe near the basket! That is a really good start. I believe the S3 has been shot down more than once by a DCSer frustrated with learning to AAR. When it clicks and you get the hang of it it is awesome though.

Edited May 25, 2020 by JellyBean

[shu77]

I have to admit Ive been having a similar problem, though I did have it under control with the X-52 and the A-10c Im waiting on a stick extension to come before I coutniue trying as I think Ive accepted Im not going to get it with the warthog grip on the default spring

[Eldur]

Not everything in life is easy or handed to us on a plate, and quite rightly.

Practice more, watch youtubes on it, or stop playing DCS.

It's a SIM not a PlayStation game.

 

Literally this. If you haven't tried it at least 50k times, don't expect to be good at anything. This is how "Youman" works.

 

But flying in VR does help a lot thanks to the stereoscopic view.

[Cornflex]

1) line up with the tanker; the hose points down vertically from the pod on the wing of the S3

2) LOOK AT THE POD NOT AT THE BASKET. NEVER LOOK AT THE BASKET!

3) adjust speed (S3 is 315kts to 316kts)

4) when you LOOK AT THE POD (NEVER AT THE BASKET) the probe should snap in the basket automatically.

5) hold speed between 314kts and 315kts and correct if nessesary. Look at the hose to see if you are getting to close or to far from the tanker.

 

Most important point: NEVER LOOK AT THE BASKET. JUST LOOK AT THE POD!

[Gregkar]

I'm on the point of giving up DCS. Refuelling is unreasoinably difficult. I've spent hours, watched videos .... no luck. Without refuelling, the F18 is very limited in what it can do.

 

Without some mode of making this slightly easier, it's very very VERY dispiriting.

 

i have the same problem buddy, you are not the only one... it would be awesome for an easy AAR option, like the easy communications, or the unlimited fuel option, or the unlimited ammunition option, or the immortal cheat, or the auto start engines cheat, or the active pause cheat, or the arcade flying option ;)

[Fri13]

I'm on the point of giving up DCS. Refuelling is unreasoinably difficult. I've spent hours, watched videos .... no luck. Without refuelling, the F18 is very limited in what it can do.

 

Without some mode of making this slightly easier, it's very very VERY dispiriting.

 

How good with ranking from 0 (worst) to 10 (best) you are in your opinion at landing on airfield by the book? Meaning how well you get to glide scope and you have smooth landing and all.

 

How good you are for just simple formation flying? Like place an AI to fly and just fly in formation with it? Again rank yourself from 0 to 10.

 

Because first you should learn to fly in formation with the tanker. So you can perform proper slow and smooth closure to it, and then get to fly in formations with it at close range.

Forget the refueling, the whole thing. Just focus for the formation flying with a C-130 or something large.

 

Now, once you master the formation flying with the large aircraft in steady flight, you can move to more challenging parts, make them to fly in circle, make them to fly in waypoint route that makes them to do lots of turns etc.

 

Once you are comfortable that you can react and stay with the aircraft in turns and all, you can start considering to go for refueling.

 

As what you are doing is flying in formation with the tanker. The difference is that you join to it via special manner (from rear) and connect physically to it. And then when you have managed to get the connection, then you focus again to do just the formation flying with it.

 

It is easy to think that one can just jump to fighter and connect to the basket/boom and then keep it there. But it requires basic skills in the formation flying.

And once you are good in formation flying, you just follow the tankers guidance systems to connect and fly along.

 

Often it is easy to see even pilots that can stay perfectly in formation with the large aircraft, perform good smooth controlled maneuvers around it etc. But once the basket comes out, they focus on it and they lose the situational awareness of the tanker and they just try to chase the basket and over correcting their inputs and its all off.

 

It is like "there is no spoon" but in spirit of "there is no basket".

 

And once you master the basket in no wind situation, then you can start to raise difficulties by adding wind, turbulence etc. And that is when the fun starts.

[Falby]

 

This video shows how to use auto-pilot in a limited way while you learn.

[Spooky OS]

I had the same issue many months ago, I could not for the life of me get in the basket and if I did couldn't stay there. I watched 104th Mavericks videos on the subject for reference, but I followed his initial advice of formatting with the aircraft and just flying alongside it. If you can fly in formation with it then you can AAR, in theory.

 

It also helps if you are either in VR, its amazing in VR, or Trackir as you can quickly gauge your reference points. From then on do it slowly, inch in and keep your references and not look at the basket.

[Meyomyx]

I'm really surprised and grateful for all your help and advice. I've calmed down. Stopped to analyse whats happening and have a plan involving pretty much all the advice given above.

 

As and when I succeed (and I will), I'll report back - or even produce a short video if my experience is any different to that of others. I detect I'm not the first to have been in this position!

 

Thanks for all your responses

[jetsimace]

Can't agree more. I simply need some kind of AAR assistance within DCS - like an easy option or a cheat for AAR.

I prefer to use TrackIR and not VR, but in the current state AAR is just frustrating for me. I do love DCS (the whole franchise starting with SU-27 Flanker.), but do have other obligations in life so that I don't have the time for a daily "training".

[Bob_Bushman]

I'm really surprised and grateful for all your help and advice. I've calmed down. Stopped to analyse whats happening and have a plan involving pretty much all the advice given above.

 

As and when I succeed (and I will), I'll report back - or even produce a short video if my experience is any different to that of others. I detect I'm not the first to have been in this position!

 

Thanks for all your responses

 

I have definitely been frustrated, and probably honestly "two weeks" where I learned it was probably the third attempt at trying to learn it followed by long break.

I have had the hornet for almost two years now and this was something I started getting a handle on around this summer.

 

I have definitely rage quit, shot the tanker, crashed with the tanker many times before then too.

[StevanJ]

I always struggled with air to air refuelling, i could do it, but i found my limitation in my HOTAS.

After i switched to VR, i put two weeks into touch controllers and in my opinion, the sensory change in using the touch controllers is in my opinion hands down easier.

The throttle response is smoother and finer, and i can change up a knot or down a know, with more accuracy, and using the VR stick just feel more precise.

 

Maybe my old Warthog had seen better days, or my deadzones were too large, but i still struggle with my HOTAS now, and use touch controls only with the F-18, F-16, and Huey.